What makes a community?

I think simply a community is a group of people who act together for the common good. Lack of community is when you have a group of people who are all after #1.

Community in the most basic terms would be a group who interacts directly, or indirectly, around a site possessing resources that they depend on. In this way we obviously can see the whole world as a community. But in ideal human terms it probably needs to be measured in much smaller terms. Anyway, there is no requirement that the individuals of group interact for the purposeful benefit of others. It is the community that takes on a life of its own, as an organism, that benefits from the interactions of individuals.
Like Eric I have lived and worked for years in a community that hasn’t been that understanding of my choices. However, on many other levels I have found relationships that I benefited from, and found ways that I could contribute. What is lacking is an understanding by the group of the common resources that we need. Our global economy has dispersed the sources of goods now so that neighbors on the same street can have dinners that come from different sides of the Earth. This is the where our interactions as community members falls apart. We don’t have to care about the same patch of dirt, therefore we don’t care about our neighbors. This will change, and we will be ready. Carl

Costa Ricans are very good at maintaining community. They don’t even have an Army anymore. They always work very hard at not offending anyone. Before they speak, they think “how will this be taken and what will people think of me afterward?”

In the USA, we tend to value “saying what we are thinking” but at times, what we think isn’t worth saying. :rolleyes:

Realize that though the Mexicans can live together – Gringos (I am one) can work together. There is a saying in Costa Rica, “In business, there are no friends.” I believe it. I find business less cooperative here, but people more friendly. Sometimes I wonder if they are just softening me up for the kill. :p

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I got some pent up anger and I sometimes spew at the wrong time or place. It’s just that I hear all these wonderful idylic thoughts about community and small farm sustainability, etc. I learned the hard way that for a small farm to be sustainable, the first thing it has to do is make money. The only way to make money is to sell something. All the latest gurus are making their money not by farming but by selling their “new” ideas in books, magazines, etc.. I personally believe that many of these “experts” are responsible for more people getting out of small farming. I’ve heard and read too many stories, including my own, how much of the “new” ideas just don’t work.
I’m all for a good community. My sarcastic comments got interesting replies which gives this community a chance to reflect a little deeper, I hope.

@CRTreeDude 106 wrote:

“John, please don’t take this sarcastic but you a very obvious statement here – the first thing a small farm (or anything) has to do is make money. Was that a surprise?”

Yes, it was. “If you build it they will come.” Not true. The only ones interested in what we are doing are well educated professionals. The downfall with that is they are too busy with their careers to be of any real help.

“Community is a key concept. The better the community, the more likely you can make it work. For example, let’s say you are a neighbor and have oxen (which is the case in our area) – I have some logs to extract from a place there is no way to get the tractor down into – So, I pay you to extract the logs for me. You get to charge me a premium price because without you, it is impossible.”

That’s partially correct. To be financially viable, you better be on the right side of town or have enough help that allows you to go there three to four times a week.

“You might be able to lay down a road with draft animals but I assume a neighbor with a bulldozer can do it a little faster. :rolleyes: But, the investment of a bulldozer is pretty steep – nice if you only need it occassionally.”

If your using mixed power (I’m not talking about armageddon and possible things to come), horses should only be used when they can do a task in the same time as your tractor.

“Community lets us use efficiently our resources. I just purchased 4 books on draft animal power – now I could have spent years learning this the hard way, but why not pay someone else who took the time to write it? This is community.”

That’s why I’m here. Writing and selling books is commercialism! I just hope you got the right four books or like too many others, you will have “spent years learning this the hard way.”

“But you do touch on an important truth. Don’t romantize too much draft animal power – there is a time and place unless you are a gentleman farmer of course.”

All my truths are important. It’s up to you to read the real meanings.

@goodcompanion 91 wrote:

But the joint ventures, the communes and cooperative farms, always ended badly, with financial messes, legal proceedings and/or hurt feelings. Yes, we need community to be more than lines on a map, our survival in fact depends on it, but I feel that we as americans are so very bad at cooperation and interdependence. The whole culture is aligned towards individualism;

I share this experience largely. And I am questioning the reasons why that is so, that so many ventures that come together, with what seem to be really great intentions and vision, end badly.

Here are some of the things I’ve thought about: We lack all the things a long established culture offers: story, myth, meaningful ritual, profound processes for resolving conflict, indentification with a specific place and our mutual dependence upon that place (as Carl talks about in his post).

I’m not sure how to create those things with a group of people but I wonder if many groups have put the draft animal before the plow in how they form. I know that the group I worked with probably did that. We came together with intentions and found a piece of land but we did not share a clear story or myth about what brought us there or would keep us there together. We developed some processes that were effective for a time but with new members who had not shared even the short history of the community those processes were diluted and the benefits forgotten.

I wonder if the story of “the Republic of Vermont” might be helpful in giving some glue to communities there?

And some can see the coming times of fossil fuel depletion and climate chaos actually requiring that we find our way to new ways of being, and/or reclaim older ways of being. I certainly see that. Perhaps there will be a story or myth or meaning come from that which will pull people together in ways that are now very challenging.

I appreciate the thoughtfulness here.

@Rod 141 wrote:

…… naturally inclined to follow the group ways.

It may seem too simple, but we lack community because we don’t practice it. For several thousand years we have been working within artificial power structures that insulate us from the difficulties of life as part of the natural world. In all the supposed positive ways that this has affected us, one negative is that we have had less and less need, or even occasion to act as natural humans. We have found success and surplus which has given us opportunity for individual expression, but this has also cultivated individualism. We replaced the need for the group with the groups need for the individual, which gave rise to a long list of expectations for membership, which includes the competition to out-perform others to demonstrate worth.
There are so many parts of our modern culture that interfere with natural expression of males, females, fathers, mothers, families, children, leaders, healers, ….. that we no longer practice what it means to be human. And Group we are. Now we act like a group of individuals. Is that a group?
I believe that when the veils are eroded and the bare naked truth of our vulnerability on this planet are clear, people naturally respond the our most basic need, our most basic skill, Community. This is happening all around us. It is happening right here on this page. Some people will have to wait until the artificial power structures collapse, others have been gaining increasing levels of insight for many years.
But as Rod says, it is difficult when your choices are not shared by those around you. But as we discuss this issue, it gains strength. As we practice what we can where we can, it gains strength. Trying to create it is not the same as practicing it, and therefore that may be one reason why intentional community building can be so difficult. And, if our desire for community is to facilitate our pursuit of a particular lifestyle, isn’t that also individualistic?
I think we have to be patient, trust our human abilities, reach out, stand out, and show that we have faith that human community really does exist (albeit in the shadows), by our participation in it. Wow I am so pleased with where this Discussion Forum is going in such a short time! Carl