Log Wagon

I looked into this a while back, and at that time the off-road forwarders were not made to be street legal , and the highway loader/trailers were not suitable for off-road use.

Payeur in Ascot Quebec was one of the companies I spoke with, and Nash equipment in Colebrook, NH was another.

If you find anything new, please share it. It is an ideal concept.

Well my search includes cut copy paste from the other front porch. The same question was asked by the Missouri Woods folks and this was a response on the other site. I think this is appropriate transferring of information given this sites young age and the possibility of some of the members don’t visit both sites.

Hope this helps everyone and the Missouri Woods folks.

“Newco Sales Inc. has an ad in the Draft Horse Journal for grapple trailer systems. Their address is P.O.Box532 Marshfield,Wisconsin 54449 Phone no.715-897-0889.The ad says to contact Brian.”

I think there may be an advertisement in Rural Heritage about this type of equipment also.

There is another post there by a co-member here (Dale Wagner – read wise old timer) that suggests using a gin pole and block and tackle systems to lift the loads on to some/any form of transport. This is good stuff, proven methods and works. Yes it is more labor intensive, but uses less fossil fuel and adds to the true potential for sustainability. Human labor seems a small price to pay for sustainability, it begs the question – “What are people for?” WB. We have a practitioner among our group that uses this method to load fish net poles along the North Carolina coast. Works great for him, although he uses a cable strung between to large trees to hoist the log from using the same block and tackle arrangement and his horses power.

We would like to have some plans for that gin pole system so we could retro fit or rebuild it with steel and make it transportable for low income start up woodsmen who can’t afford an old knuckle boom loader or don’t have them available in their area. If anyone has knowledge of such plans please share them. There was such a diagram in the Small Farmer’s Journal many years ago but I can’t seem to find it now and the editor isn’t aware of which issue either.

The earlier post by Simon is interesting and helpful. An article about his work is in a recent issue of RH. He won an award as the best horse logger in England and will be harvesting some timber on Prince Charles estate as some point in the future. There are a few folks over there working animals in the forest. He said the Prince had a pair of Suffolk horses so I of course encouraged him to work them in the woods too. I bet they are fat and haven’t done much work and probably never worked in the woods. There is awesome grazing in England.

I also encourage the Missouri Woods folks to keep us in touch with what they decide to do. We are all learning together. No organization or individual has all the answers, if they thought they did, someone or reality would change the questions. This type of sharing is what makes this site worthy of being considered a community.

Jason Rutledge

I would have to say that the forwarder wagons are indeed attractive. A friend of mine just bought a tractor towed version for $20K+. For that kind of money I see them having to fill a need such as Simon or Jason describe, hauling long distances for several teams and cutters.

Another good friend of mine is a caretaker for a 1400 acre parcel where they have invested in a Metavic Forwarder wagon. The owners are not concerned with rapid payback, more interested in facilitating the low impact long term harvesting plan. I have yarded to this machine several times, and find it very handy, and effective. They run it with an 80hp John Deere 4wd and haul about a thousand feet to a load. Our terrain is too steep and variable to truly consider a horse-drawn model.

One of the draw-backs with these kind of investments with horse-logging is the difference in overhead. While I can appreciate the improvement in capability, there is a substantial carrying cost to such equipment. Yes more work can be done, but it must be. One of my beloved old-timer mentors, a man who grew up logging with horses, went to crawlers and skidders, then back to horses, always said once you get into the seat of a machine its nearly impossible to get out.

So much work can be done with horses without machinery, and that is the real beauty to me. I can make or break the effectiveness of my horse operation, myself, based on my own ingenuity and skill. The low overhead and flexibility of the animal power unit is ideally suited to low tech operations. I have loaded many logs on a log wagon by hand or by par-buckling. I also use a bobsled and scoot, both excellent ways to move larger loads on snow.

Just to add to the discussion, one of the coolest ways I have found to move large tree-length wood is with a bunk-cart. A set of wheels on a pole, like a rear-end of a small truck. The bunk is situated to top out at the top of the tires. Backing the cart against the butt end of the tree so that one wheel is about a foot from the cut, a chain is attached to the center of the bunk, and wrapped around the tree trunk at that point. With the chain as tight as possible, and both wheels against the tree, the horses are engaged to move ahead, turning slightly to the same side as the butt. This presses the butt against the tire which is turning, as the cart goes forward, so that the rolling wheel lifts the tree up, and as the cart continues to turn in that direction the log swings right up onto the bunk. I have successfully loaded white pine trees 50-60 feet long scaling 450 board feet. Once the log is in place it should be centered and bindered to prevent it from rolling or sliding. I have rolled the thing over because I hadn’t figured that out yet. I have used horses and oxen on this cart and found it to move very easy.

Any way Mike Miller, a member of this forum, is a salesman for Payeur Distributions Inc, in Quebec, a private message to him might get more info about forwarder wagons, otherwise call him 819-679-0175 or e-mail mike@payeur.com . He brought a HD model to the NE Animal-Power Field Days in Tunbridge VT in September. They do work, Carl

Hello Simon,

Glad to hear the forwarder is working out for you, and congratulations on the award.

Would you mind explaining your crew configuration?

hi rick, the crew configuration has not worked out as well as we planned last year. My wife was very ill at the start of last year and one of our sons had to stay home for a number of months, that just left 3 of us in the wood which was not ideal. However now that my wife is back to full health we hope to get our crew configuration sorted. My son keith who is 20 drives the forwarder with our two studs in the shafts, simon jnr, ian and myself will do the felling and use our mares to skid to track side. WE would aim to keep keith on the forwarder full time if possible. Miik afelt [ horselogger ] who designed this machine along with MS jumetumn did a time study a few years back. The productivity of forest transport of three meter birch pulp at a medium distance of 473 meters was 8.7m3 at an actual working hour, 5 meters birch pulp would yeild 14.5 m3 an hour. timber specs will vary from wood to wood, at the moment we are mostly cutting 3.7 meter sawlogs which would equate to about 11m3 an hour.. 11m3 =10 tonnes which roughly = 2000 board feet. A 6 hour working day should yield 60 tonnes [ 12000 board feet ]. The problem is that you would require a large crew and quiet a number of horses to fully maximise the potential of the forwarder. THe ideal situation is if one is living in an area where there are a number of horse loggers the forwarder could be maxmised by coring with other horseloggers to forward their timber.
simon lenihan

carl, the wagon was designed by a horselogger from finland called miika afelt, the company m&s jumentum built the forwarder, these forwarders are not made outside of finland. They build 3 different versions, lightweight for one horse, middleweight for a pair without assisting draw, and the model we have heavyweight with assisting draw. Our forwarder weighs 1600kg and can take a maximum length of 5 meters. maximum payload is 5000kg. THe assisting draw is variable and is operated by a lever marked from 0 to 10, 10 being the maximum assist, as the horses come under pressure the lever is raised driving more hyddraulic oil to the motors which in turn helps the horses.
simon lenihan

Simon, the answer is, Yes, but … To be an independent sub-contractor, at least in NH, the person has to have his own tools, a track record as a contractor and the freedom to choose how he accomplishes his work. That effectively excludes rookies. The good loggers with these qualifications already have their own machines with big payments. They work as one-man crews with their skidders and saws, and can’t downsize easily.

One possibility I’m looking at is a newer type of business organization called a Limited Liability Partnership. In this arrangement, the partners don’t have to insure each other, and their liability extends only to the assets of the business. Of course It’s almost impossible to get an unsecured loan.

Anyway, thanks again for the input.