the basics, REALLY basic

DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Draft Animal Power › Horses › the basics, REALLY basic

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  • January 28, 2008 at 1:40 am #39425
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I know somebody out there is going to roll their eyes and think “This knucklehead has no business even thinking of owning a team!”:rolleyes:, but I beg your tolerance. Everyone has to start somewhere.

    A couple of questions have lodged in my mind, which is quite a trick in itself. 😮 For instance, what exactly is a “hand”? I’ve gathered that under 14.2 hands is a pony, and most drafts appear to be 16+, but that doesn’t tell me much.

    And then there is the question of the term “grade”. Contextually, it seems to me that a grade filly is a female with the looks and appearance of a particular breed, but is not registered. From what I’m reading this is ususally due to the cost of registering. Yes, no, maybe?

    So buying a grade filly means that she may or may not breed true, right? That is a consideration for me as selling offspring is part of the farm plan. Not that I’m overly concerned with registering them, just that once I settle on a breed I’m going to want them to breed true, purely for vanity’s sake.

    Could a draft or a team be used to drive a wagon 10 miles to town and back in a reasonable amount of time? Being retired and not having anything but the farm to demand my time I would say a reasonable amount of time in my mind would be three hours driving time. So I guess we’re talking around 7 mph average.

    Now, hypothetically speakling, let’s say I wanted to have a pair of grey Percherons or American Creams. I’d say around 5 years old, and at least semi-trained. What kind of prices would they likely command, in grade and in registered stock? I would probably not want to buy them both from the same place as I would want to diversify the bloodlines so they can be bred together.

    What is the gestation period of a mare? How far into that period can a mare be worked?

    Drawing a sulky plow is probably a team effort, but how about mowing, raking, drawing the haywagon, a harrow or a cultivator?

    Are a pair of geldings a viable team? Or do they retain enough male tendencies to make that an undesirable mix?

    January 28, 2008 at 2:08 am #45472
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    @LeatherneckPA 634 wrote:

    n what exactly is a “hand”? …….

    And then there is the question of the term “grade”.

    Could a draft or a team be used to drive a wagon 10 miles to town and back in a reasonable amount of time?

    Drawing a sulky plow is probably a team effort, but how about mowing, raking, drawing the haywagon, a harrow or a cultivator?

    Are a pair of geldings a viable team? Or do they retain enough male tendencies to make that an undesirable mix?

    A hand is 4″, broken into 4 parts, therefore 16.2 hands is 66″ (16 x 4, + 2″), the .2 is not a decimal point.

    Grade is fundamentally not registered, however most people refer to any mix or mongrel as “Grade”, whereas a purebred unregistered animal will probably breed true, but being unregistered there is no guarantee.

    Team can definitely get you to town and back.

    Geldings in a team are excellent, can mix and match with mares as well. All the chores you list would be good for a team. You will find a lot of work for the single horse as well.

    Good questions. We really appreciate the honest student. It is a really good place to start. Carl

    January 28, 2008 at 3:12 am #45474
    goodcompanion
    Participant

    If you are just starting out I’d suggest you go with just geldings. They don’t reproduce, it’s true, but they are much more hormone-free and likely to be easygoing. I have two mares and a gelding and wish they were all geldings. Don’t pay extra money for purebred anything unless you are getting into the breeding business. The papers on a purebred american cream gelding, for instance, are good for starting small fires or taping over cracked windowpanes but little else.

    The price of drafts is so depressed right now, there’s not a great incentive to breed unless you have really super stock and good connections too.

    Good road shoes aren’t cheap. I only live a mile from town but I can’t afford to shoe my horses for pavement. Something to think about.

    small harrow or cultivator or stone boat, one horse. Anything else usually depends on the configuration of the equipment. Does it have a pole? Then it’s a team pull. Shafts? Single. You can get, for instance, a single-horse mower or hay rig, but these are a little unusual.

    You ought to be able to procure your team for under $4000. Good luck!

    January 28, 2008 at 3:28 pm #45473
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    Mike, it occurred to me while milking this morning, many things come to me while milking, that you may have been referring to stallions when you wrote “geldings may retain too much maleness”, or something like that. Stallions are uncut, can be used for breeding, also can be directed by their hormonal drive, but many people work them, even next to mares they breed. In fact, it is often thought of as the best way to keep them handleable and in good shape. I however have no experience with stallions, and will leave comments about such to others.

    Geldings on the other hand have been castrated, interrupting hormonal development. This is still no guarantee that the animal won’t be potentially difficult. I have worked geldings with geldings, and geldings with mares, and mares with mares, and there are always differences between animals that will be part of learning to work them.

    I also started out with some idea that I would be able to reproduce my power system by having a mare on board. I have owned her for twenty years, and never came close to getting her bred. This is because there are lots and lots of good healthy horses out there, that don’t require find a good sire, pregnant mare management, and the other aspects to a good breeding program.

    I question breeding programs designed purely on breed name. Those people who are truly advancing the gene pool of draft breeds have many years of experience, not only in horse breeding, but more importantly, in the application of the traits that they breed for into real working situations.

    This is not to say that down the line you could be such a horse breeder, it may be something good to set your sights on, but I would suggest focusing more on affordable horses that you can put to work in your enterprise.
    Carl

    January 29, 2008 at 1:23 am #45475
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    One of the biggest objections I hear all the time to drafts is that they require 50% – 100% more feed than say a Fjord. So I was wondering how much you guys supplement with grain. What are your annual feed bills like? How much hay would I have to put up for an average team of drafts to get through the winter?

    July 8, 2008 at 7:17 am #45476
    cxb100
    Participant

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