Twisted Wire Snaffle?

George, I have found that jointed bits, and twisted wire jointed bits especially, cause pain as well as pressure. The pain can be a good attention-getter IF you are subtle and quick enough to give an appropriate release/reward. The problem I found was that the pain will begin to numb the horse’s mouth so that they eventually can’t feel the release, and therefore never feel the reward for giving into the pressure, therefore never believing that they can trust your attempts to rein them in.

Whatever bit I use, I remove the reins from the rings up high on the hames, and run them through rings on drop straps so that the rein pressure comes in lower, pulling straight back against the lower jaw and not up into the corners of the mouth. This reduces pinching pain at the corners, and holds the head in, reducing the ability to lunge. I however prefer a straight bit, no pinching. On a really pushy horse I have used a rubber bit to great results.

No matter what course you take, you will get more mileage out of your hands then you will get out of any particular bit. Think backwards. The best way to hold back a hard pulling horse is with a light touch. It takes a lot of practice, but it will come.

At least that’s the way I see it. Carl

George, my drop straps are about 6-8″ long. I don’t use britchen drops. I think they have more to do with keeping the reins than with bit action.

I don’t want to be misunderstood. you have to provide significant pressure to assert the appropriate reaction from the horse. Sometimes that may seem like your arms can’t live up to it, on certain horses.

As many others have said, there are bits that will assist you by adding pressure, or by additional pain. The horse will take only what they are willing to, THEN when they give to the appropriate pressure, you have show that you are as soft handed as they could ever expect. This is where you have to work with subtlety to establish the appropriate pressure relationship with the horse. You don’t give in, but when they do, you have to be ready to show your softness. The advantage of bits like wire snaffles is that you may not have to work so hard, the disadvantage is the pain. Either way don’t turn it into a fight for control because that is the mental energy that will not prepare you for the reward you must be ready to provide. I have found that the straight bit is my preference, because I think that I can feel that subtlety better. I have also found that as I said, pain can deaden their ability to feel the subtle release/reward.

As plowboy says, the horse may be taking every advantage of your uncertainty, and the twisted wire bit may be your best bet. My comments were only meant to encourage you to think beyond the bit as well. Carl

Wow, a lot of great advice on bitting. Unfortunately you have to sort through it all and figure out what it means for you and your horse. Two thoughts and I will go on to buck back straps. First is that changing the bit on on a horses that has been using the same one for a long time can be difficult. Not that I wouldn’t try but that I would view it as retraining the animal. I would expect it to take time to get the desired response from what amount to a new set of signals. I my case I went back to the bit the animals came from. I haven’t used any jointed bits, that would include a twisted wire bit, I just don’t like the way they fit in the mouth. I think switching to a levered bit would be an easier transition.
Yes, I have used a buck back successfully. They can help with a young animal that is in training, one you are a little unsure of. Some folks hook to the snaffle ring on the bit, (no leverage) others put them on a halter worn under the bridle. I have tried both and found some animals responded better to one than the other. Today I would probably put it on the bit first. Safety points to consider, number one they do nothing without a load. So if you are going ‘back to the barn’ this may not help. This includes a forecart that is not pulling anything. this includes any downhill work that takes the load off the tugs. Finally it creates another layer of mystery between you and the animal you are trying to communnicate with. I would suggest that it is a back up system that should be without tension until the animal misbehaves and you put him/her quickly back in their place with line communications. As with any aid there is the question of how are you going to get rid of it. Don’t get stuck on it. Having said all that they are not a bad tool.
You mentioned the problem of be gentle leading to the animal going faster and faster. Two quick thoughts, Before you can be gentle you must have control. You need to enforce a walk with whatever bit you have. They will respond to that. The thing to do, and not always easy by the way, is turn a constant pressure into pulses of pressure until they start to walk with the desired pressure. That way every pulse is a signal, an opportunity for them to respond. Constant pressure quickly becomes not a signal but noise which hides the signal of what you want. I have even gone so far as to try to never make like pulses exactly even on both sides. Left, right, left, another gentling effect that says you will listen to me. Good luck and keep us posted on how the horse does. Keep asking questions. Donn

For what it’s worth, I had a very similar situation with Tony, the bigger of my two Belgians. I got a bit called a Liverpool from a guy who works with an Amish community about an hour and a half south of me. It’s not unlike a curb bit, but instead of a pronounced “u” shape, it’s just an arc, gentle, but more authoritative than a snaffle. He takes it well, and it works.

Don

Milking again, I got to thinking.

Even though this doesn’t follow exactly the title of the thread, these are thoughts I think apply to discussion above.

Please excuse any incorrect assumptions, I’m just throwing out some thoughts.

Sometimes I have found that the excited behavior of one horse may have to do with the dynamics between the horses. Ie. one horse lunges, or pushes hard because the other is slacking, or perhaps is expressing discomfort with the working situation. You may have an ambitious horse who wants to please you, but he is un-nerved by the disrespect expressed by the slacker. The rambunctious actions of the pusher might be attracting your attention away from the misbehavior of the other. You might find working them individually will help improve working understanding with all of you. You may get a positive response from both horses if you pay equal attention to each.

Another thing to consider, is a common topic of conversation that I have had in response to similar questions from novices. Focusing on the bit, or snow-balls in the shoes, or flies, or the fit of the harness (for examples), are all important issues, but they can also become minutia that minimize the focus of the teamster.

As everyone knows, horses are prey animals, which most of the time brings up discussion of fear response. It also means that as prey they are big picture thinkers. They are wide view seers, hearing and sent are working constantly. They are so sensitive to their surroundings in all directions. They can even feel a fly land on the long hairs of the fetlock.

For what ever reason, whether we are predators or not, we have incredible ability to focus on particulars. However this is not a behavior that the horse will relate to positively. To be an effective leader of horses the teamster will benefit from practicing the large view. Focusing on minutia breaks down the big view. Worrying about one horse reaction to the bit, will distract the teamster from the initiative of the working situation. I have found that when I remain aware of the big picture, focusing on many aspects of the enterprise, and just let the distracting horse stew in their juice, they soon realize that I am aware of more than they are, and begin to pay attention to me.

This may be why the horse tends to act up on the way to the barn, because you have nothing to keep your attention other than the behavior of your horse.

Another aspect of the horses nature is their demonstrative ability. Go into a pasture when they are feeling good, and you may find at least one will charge around, and demonstrate their POWER. This is the behavior that gains them the attention of their herd mates. If you focus on that behavior, whether in the field, or in the harness, you are validating that expression for that animal. If this behavior does not impress you, and you let your lack of interest be known, the animal will realize their failure to over-power you.

Whew. Sorry about that. This is only to illustrate that there is always more to the picture than what meets the eye. Carl

George and Kristan, it sounds to me like you are asking the right questions. from this distance we can throw out ideas all day and that might have nothing to do with what is actually going on. haveing more people validate or question what’s up while they are with you, working is the best help. Mentoring, right. keep up the good work. I don’t know what kind of logs you have, etc. But I incourage you to do some logging while walking if it is practical. Better chance to send good signals to the animals and insist they walk because you must. Also, a buck back strap probably won’t improve your or your horses ability to start a load smoothly. Donn