driving oxen with lines indian style:good or bad?

This topic has 38 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 1 month ago by Rustedthrough.

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July 8, 2008 at 1:29 pm #39543
bivol
Participant
my hobby is comparing yoking and driving techniques around the world.
although most oxen in west are driven without lines, i wonder if it would be easier to learn them to work, especially from behind, with lines. but first let me say i’m against the nose-ring as they hurt the animals.
what i was thinking is how they control cattle in india. working cattle have a long history in india, and since they are sacred animals there, i dont think this system is abusive. the rope, unlike the ring, has as good as no weight, and the animal feels it only when you pull it. and the rope follows the shape of the nose.
[IMG]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/3/3041704_bdba8b3d39.jpg?v=0[/IMG]
see first picture to get the idea. the rope is pulled through the nose and tied behind the horns. when you pull the left line, the left ox stops, and the cart turns left because the other animal keeps going. or you pull both and cart stops. to get going tap both animals with a whip.
pros and cons:
pros. 1)anyone, ANYONE, no matter how inexperienced, can drive an ox-cart using lines. oxen are smart, and if they figure out they have some dominance over the person who works them, there can be problems. especially if there is a situation where an inexperienced person must drive the team. these problems do not exist, or are minor, with this system. this means that even a person with no knowledge of driving cattle can control them.
2) pulling the lines stops the team instantly, which is important if something runs in front of the cart.
3)fast training with real work. but even with lines, oxen must be trained and used like working animals they are.
4)this system effectivelly controls nervous and high-strung animals.
5)they learn to work with you from behind, so you can comfortablly sit on the cart and drive, like you would horses.
6)compared to bits or nose ring, this system is less restrictive. the bits interfere with chewing cud, and the nose rings hurt the animals.
[IMG]http://www.flickr.com/photos/willandtrish03/57052300/sizes/o/[/IMG]
cons1) it’s complicated to make a multiple hitch using this control system, because it works best on a single pair of oxen. but that’s when you get a pair of holsteins or brown swiss that are strong enough to do the work.
2) logging from behind, like with horses.
anyway, i’d like to know what you think.
July 8, 2008 at 2:27 pm #46235
Neil Dimmock
Participant
I use lines, it just makes more sense, I cant imagine running along side the cow 23 miles to town, but I use a bit, its faster and no need to punch holes in the cow, the only con I have found is if they have been on green grass so I have a small tarp that crosses over the tail and hooks to the tug hangers that way any loose or runny is aimed down, I use a collar, some of the pro’s
1 dont have to refit every thing to a yoke then back to double tree,2 it more comfortable for the ox,3 there is breeching and it holds from the rear instead of the yoke running up the neck until it smashes the ears, 4 I could go on and on but just check out my pics and you can see for your self!!
Neil
July 8, 2008 at 5:28 pm #46234
Rob FLory
Participant
I sure want to do this some day. I don’t like having to have a second person to operate the mower or plow, and I am not good enough at training to drive mine from behind just with voice.
I drove a team trained by Watson Smith, who ringed them. When putting lines on the rings, he tied the ring up on top of the nose with a rope around the horns. This took some of the pull off the ring. The steers were very responsive to the lines, and they could be driven with a very light touch on the lines.
I disagree that the rings hurt the noses. A rope would be more likely to cause abrasion.
I also disagree that anyone regardless of inexperience can drive them. I think that would be the same as saying anyone could drive a team of horses with lines regardless of inexperience. Sure, anyone can drive them… until they get scared and run away.
Rob Flory
July 8, 2008 at 6:42 pm #46232
Howie
Participant
Just so you know I drive mine from behind by voice, except to back the spreader into the barn, the door is pretty tight. I get off my butt and drive them from along side.
If the ring is allowed to heal in the nose properly it will not hurt near as much as a rope.
Just because a 3 year old kid can reach the steering wheel does not mean he can drive a truck.
Mine back the load with their horns not their ears, That is what they have horns for. A collar is no more comfortable than a yoke. If you like a britchen that is OK, I prefer one when I am working a single ox.
July 9, 2008 at 2:13 pm #46233
TinaY
Participant
I don’t have experience with oxen, but am very interested in them. I saw this past weekend a man with a team of Brown Swiss that had rings and lines. The rings were clipped to a snap sewn into the halter and two lines attached to each nose ring, and then run through rings on the yoke. I didn’t get a chance to see if they crossed them like horse lines (like a stub line), but I’d imagine they were. This man also had a pair of young shorthorns that he led by the halter, they didn’t have rings in their nose, but it sounded like he planned on doing it. I found it interesting that he didn’t train them from the beginning with the rings. The rings seemed comfortable, and were healed like earrings in a human…you don’t even notice them, and pulling on them doesn’t really hurt. However, I’m not using my earrings as a steering wheel either!
Being a horse person, I feel uncomfortable with the idea that an ox will cooperate and behave on voice and whip commands alone (you can’t guarantee that with a horse!), so that part of me likes the idea of a ring or a bit. But, that’s one of the draws of oxen for me…that they don’t behave like horses.
July 9, 2008 at 2:34 pm #46236
Neil Dimmock
Participant
@Howie 2122 wrote:
Just so you know I drive mine from behind by voice, except to back the spreader into the barn, the door is pretty tight. I get off my butt and drive them from along side.
If the ring is allowed to heal in the nose properly it will not hurt near as much as a rope.
Just because a 3 year old kid can reach the steering wheel does not mean he can drive a truck.
Mine back the load with their horns not their ears, That is what they have horns for. A collar is no more comfortable than a yoke. If you like a britchen that is OK, I prefer one when I am working a single ox.
Collars are way more comfortable than yokes, have you ever used one? I have used both and I can say for sure plus they stay put and dont run up and down the neck from the horns, if they have any, to the hump. Voice only works until they get spooked or heel fly season then they go and voice only drovers always say , well they never did that before!! or, you have to be prepared for this.
July 9, 2008 at 5:24 pm #46238
bivol
Participant
thank you for showing such intrest for the topic. frankly, i don’t know which system hurts the oxen, rings or rope. i think, if used improperly, any system hurts. so, i’d like to here you people who use nose-rings to drive your oxen to
and about htat what i said, that anyone can drive them with lines, that was wrong, sorry:p. what i meant is that a complete stranger, if showed how to do it, can easier control oxen with lines, than with his voice alone.
if someone here drives oxen with nose rings, please put some pictures. i searched across the net, and could barrely find anything, except in Cuba.

the nose rings used in italy on chianina cattle are elongated, broad and do not deforme the nose the way an usual nose-ring does. i have no objections to this kind of nose ring.
July 9, 2008 at 8:38 pm #46239
bivol
Participant
i also found this on web about driving with lines:
Because of the fine control one gets by nasal harnessing, driving them becomes accessible to everybody regardless of size, sex or age. This makes ox driving easy to take up. The simplicity of the system means anybody can take it up, train the oxen and work them.
A friend of mine wanted something to do for the bulls, so I asked him to train the bull calves. He was a bit bemused because he had no experience with oxen what to speak of training them. The two bull calves had been castrated at one year of age and at the same time had nose rings put in. We put the oxen in a small training yoke. Their nose ring, looped around the back of the head and then secured to the center of the back of the head. A small two wheel cart (more or less a seat on two wheels) was fixed to the yoke. My friend sat on the cart and from the start he was driving the bulls all over the field. To move left he called Haw, he stopped the left bull by pulling back on the rope attached to the left bull s nose and, at the same time, gently tapped the right bull to keep it moving around the left bull. To turn right he called Gee, pulled the right bull and tapped the left bull. To stop he called Whoa and pulled back on both bulls. To start he called Get Up and tapped both bulls.
As you can see this system is so simple that anybody, even without experience can do it. Obviously to have the bulls working well you must work them regularly. Gentleness and firmness should be the attitude of the driver.
August 7, 2008 at 11:40 am #46250
mathuranatha
Participant
G,day from Australia my first post —just found this site .
I use lines but not like the indian system .I have two lines to each animal apparently like ‘split reigns ‘for horses.Although these days I often just use one ox in a cart and a reign to either side of a loop rope through his nose and around behind his horns.In amongst crowds of people and cars much better fine tuned control.
Good topic thanks Mat
June 9, 2009 at 12:14 pm #46265
kohlerjd110
Participant
where can i find this style nose ring
June 10, 2009 at 11:10 am #46256
Nat(wasIxy)
Participant
Hi,
I personally don’t like nose bits or rings. I don’t even have any piercings myself and I just don’t feel right about putting a hole through my animal…except an entire bull. for safety. I’m finding my oxen are fine without any kind of ring or bit, they respond to tugs on the halter, voice commands, body language or a prod with a stick just fine.
June 10, 2009 at 10:51 pm #46240
bivol
Participant
@kohlerjd110 9394 wrote:
where can i find this style nose ring
you’ll probably have to make it yourself, or order it made. it should be thick enough as not to cut in the flesh. a straight metal piece through the nose shouldn’t upset the nose as the round one does. and it must not rost and must be smooth.
check this for more info:http://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?t=777
the picture was taken in Italy.
Ixy, i wouldn’t pierce the noses if i had a choice, but if i wouldn’t, i’d put the ones as sescribed in this thread
June 12, 2009 at 8:46 pm #46257
Nat(wasIxy)
Participant
are those not referred to as nose ‘bits’ rather than ‘rings’?
June 12, 2009 at 10:42 pm #46241
bivol
Participant
i think no, cause i’ve never, in english or another lang., seen such a name for them, if you mean the elongated rings. i guess they’re just a regional variation to nose rings, used in Italy on Chianina oxen.
the bit in itself is a system that is removed when the animals are not working, while the nose-rings stay on oxen when they’re not working. and the bit doesn’t require piercing as the rings do. so i guess it’s unlikely to call them bits.
June 13, 2009 at 7:36 am #46253
CharlyBonifaz
Member
nose pegs?
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