Need advice.

Rod,

I was driving a single horse once, she was new to me, she took off, i got back up ran after her, and just as she was coming to a stop i recovered the reins, and said “whoa”, I don’t think she ever knew i wasn’t behind her, but she responded to my whoa. Never had another problem with her.

One of the things that works well for me is to park them in such a way that they’re “boxed in ” so to speak.Like in the opposite direction of the barn, or headed up to a tree line or fence or what have you. I also will do square pen work, my paddock, where i’ll work on standing. Do they step off before you ask them too when you work them?

Goodluck, always something too learn.

neal

Rod,
When I tell my horses to stop, I don’t just expect that they stop moving their feet. I expect them to show me that they are not going to move. Any animal will stop, but it is the willingness to stand that you need to condition them to.

Neil’s advice to keep hold of the lines is good, and should be a good place to start. If you have to work on something that distracts you, then it would be good to park them, as the other Neal suggests, or take them back to the barn and get your stuff together first.

When I stop my horses, I release the light tension that I have on the bit while driving, BUT not until they show me what I am looking for. In other words, whoa is not just a button that I push to get the thing to stop. As I am preparing to stop, especially with horses that need the point reinforced, I make sure that they are paying attention to me, reaffirm my tension on the lines, say whoa, and as they begin to stop, I let off tension.

All the while I am assessing the body language. I only give complete release when they show me a comfortable stance. And I keep an eye on them, because if I see that comfortable stance breaking down, I will restart them before they start on their own.

Some days this means that as much as I want to get meaningful “work” done, I have to pick chores that lend themselves to this exercise.

I use this method of releasing pressure at whoa, so that they understand that when the lines are slack, they stand, especially since I have conditioned them to give me a “stand” behavior before I give them complete release. Before I leave them to open gates, or hitch logs, or pieces of equipment, I practice moving away and watching their behavior to make sure that they are steady. The key is to get the correct response from the beginning, because if you think you will trick them into standing a little bit longer each time, then they probably haven’t completely given into the whoa thing.

I never “trust” that they will stand. I know that I can tell if they are going to stand, but as Neil says it is the unexpected that can ruin your day. For exercises like tree felling, I back my log cart up to a tree and wrap a choker around. They are already conditioned to stand so they don’t spend their time jumping and slamming to get free, but just in case something happens, I won’t find them when I’m limbing out the tree, and I won’t have to walk out of the woods(and they won’t run over my kids coming to visit).

When I have hitches down, I skid one out onto the main trail and “park” them with the hitch, then go back and cut another. They are far enough from where I am so that I won’t hit them, and last fall a really big pine I cut was a few feet taller that I thought and the top landed near enough to fluff their whiskers with wind, and they just watched it fall and waited for me to get back on the cart before they moved an inch.

The only problem I have with taking the lines with me, is that moving the lines is a clue to my horses that I am getting ready to drive, and I have found that keeps them more ready, and not completely relaxed.

I hope things work out for you, Carl

Buckback to the bit, if it a bad one to the halter will fail, I never and I mean never had one hurt it own mouth at least never a drop of blood and they will only really try once after that its just for show, and only the really bad ones. In training I ask for a whoa first then the line and head for a voice only stop but don’t count on this for every situation. Some use whoa to much, for some it means stand, or get over or please don’t scare me! it should be used only for stop, and don’t mix it in with a whole bunch of words like( King whoa now) horse don’t understand sentences but single words. I teach my students to speak up as well, that way you know they heard you and you can correct them with a clear conscience. if you mumble you will never know if they heard you or not and you’ll hesitate and soon they take advantage of that and stopping will be a long process, same with turning and backing , say it once, speak up so you know they heard you and then correct if they don’t do as you ask. its like going forward you ask once then move them up and you don’t keep asking them to go forward after that you just let them go, nothing sound worse than a driver saying over and over, Haw, Haw, get over Haw, they sound like a crow, it just a bad habit and teaches your horses to ignore you because there to much info for them to take in .

@Neil Dimmock 2342 wrote:

In training I ask for a whoa first then the line and head for a voice only stop but don’t count on this for every situation. …………..then correct if they don’t do as you ask. .

Neil, what do you mean by line and “head” and how does your approach differ for trained horses? Also, I am interested in your method of correction when horses hesitate on the go command? I was plowing yesterday and my horses were pretty tired. I was having to ask more than once, at times, to have them go. How much of this do you tolerate when horses are tired. I believe I was giving them adequate rest.

Carl, when you mention pressure or tension before stopping can I assume you are not pulling back on the lines, just providing some pressure and then releasing when stopped? Can I also assume that you would increase pressure dramatically if they take a step or two?

Hope I’m not too off topic for this thread.

Thanks.

George

The tension I mention is just to reaffirm for discussion that I can feel the bits, therefore they can feel me. They then can also feel me releasing the tension more accurately. I realize that I describe the action as if it takes time. It has a distinct process, but happens almost instantly.

The other part of this is what you are doing with the lines while working. By constantly stimulating them physically with constant light tension, and varied commands and directions, they are working both physically and mentally, WHILE the bit has tension,AND is active. Then when I release the tension they quickly realize that the stimulus is going to stop, so they can too. This is the reward.

If a horse doesn’t stop, I will increase pressure substantially, while being prepared to release just as quickly as the horse gives the expected responce.

When stopping it is important that the expectation is not to just stop moving, but to stand, as I described earlier, otherwise you are leaving too much up to the horse, like “Sometimes I stop you to stop moving, but this time I expect you to stand”. This is the kind of “trust” that will lead to disaster. Stop the horses to stand, EVERY time you say whoa. Whoa-back-whoa-haw-whoa-come up, will work, and horses love to keep moving, but you have just lost the meaning of whoa somewhere in the mix. Whoa (stand..for a moment)- Back – Whoa (stand.. for 2 moments)- Haw- Whoa (stand….) If you want whoa to mean something important, it needs to be instituted as such.

George, about starting, it is hard to tell exactly without being there. Neil had some good advice. I would ad that I never let my horses stop on their own. I always stop them before they get over-extended. I especially get questions when I stop my horses in the middle of a hill pulling logs uphill. If they can’t start it they won’t pull it, and they need wind and rest like all the rest of us. Also if horses get used to being pushed to the point where they want to stop, they will lose confidence in the teamster, and often will be balky when starting. Try stopping them more often. There is nothing wrong with horses that are well rested, they will work harder between whoas, and probably get more done than if you don’t stop at all.

Carl