DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Sustainable Living and Land use › Sustainable Farming › Pasture renovation
- This topic has 21 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 10 months ago by blue80.
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- August 28, 2008 at 1:04 pm #39746jen judkinsParticipant
Hi All, I have been offered a free lease of an old hay field from a neighbor (I actually used part of it this summer) to graze my horses. The problem is that this has been untended for years. I had part of it lymed 18 months ago and after alot of mowing this spring, it was ok for limited grazing but still loaded with weeds. I’d kind of like to start over, but it is such an overwhelming task for me as a new farmer. The problems I see are…limited legumes growing, and weeds, weeds, weeds. Part of this field is so over grown with weeds I can barely walk through it. The soil has good structure and soil analysis was not off by much except pH. I’d like to plant a combination of timothy, clover and alfalfa (just abit).
So questions…can I do this without major tilling? I’ve been doing most of my gardens and other fields with a no till policy with pretty good success. I also don’t own the implements to do this at this point. What’s the best timing for a major renovation? can I get it done this fall or will I have to wait till spring? Would it makes sense to do some sort of overseeding and then put sheep or cattle on the pasture for a season?
I plan another round of Lyme as well as a heathly layer of composted manure this fall. Any comments or hints are appreciated. Jennifer.
August 28, 2008 at 9:19 pm #47238Carl RussellModeratorJenn,
Lime and manure are good. Also drag it to spread out the manure from your horses, and to break up the thatch. We have had great success with broad casting favored seed after you move the animals to another section. Clipping/mowing/brush-hogging the weeds will help. Subdividing the field into intensive paddocks will ensure that your grazers have the most impact, deposit nutrients evenly, and will give the grasses a chance to rebound before being re-grazed.The trick is to limit the consecutive days that a particular grass plant gets chewed down, because that will weaken the roots which will give advantage to the weeds.
You shouldn’t have to till. CarlAugust 28, 2008 at 11:02 pm #47241ngcmcnParticipantJen,
You shouldn’t have to till, but to renovate a worn out pasture takes time, like three years or so with sufficient stocking rates,i.e, enough hooves, poop and pee and saliva to impact the biology of your soil. Composted manure and lime are good but there again it takes a while.
We have been restoring a worn out hay field here in Me. that had mostly golden rod, and bed straw in. In two years of attentive grazing, some manure, and lime, combined with timely clippings we’re seeing increased denstiy of grass and clover. The field is changing, but slowly, we really need more animals to do it in a more timely way.
Voisin(sp?)(grass guru) said it tkaes many many years to create good sod if you plow.
Good luck there’s lots of grazing info out there.
NBeal Mcnaughten
Unity, me.August 28, 2008 at 11:43 pm #47246Crabapple FarmParticipantOur farm was abandoned for eight years before we bought it (no mowing, no nothing). We’ve been slowly bringing the fields back into production, some into cropland, some pasture or hay.
When we bought it, it took quite a bit of searching to find a clover plant anywhere. Now, we’re worrying about our sheep getting bloat in some areas, the clover is so solid. And we did it without spreading anything, just mowing and grazing.
Intensive managed grazing, preferably with a mix of species, can work wonders. In as little as one year of good management.First question: what weeds do you have? Each species of grazer has some that they won’t eat, so if you’re grazing for improvement, you need animals who will eat what you want eaten.
A mower has a voracious appetite and will “eat” everything, so clipping with a mower is a great option if that makes more sense than adding herds to your life.
Clover needs light to germinate and grow, so the trick to getting clover established or reestablished is to graze it down close, so that you can see dirt between the plants, then get them off it so you don’t kill it. Haying has the same effect, but the regrowth period for hay is usually long enough that the slow-growing clovers tend to get smothered before they get established (though red clover tends to come into a well managed hay field to some extent, at least for us).
Alfalfa’s a wimp and is going to be hard to get established without plowing and seeding, plus I doubt it would persist well in a horse pasture in the northeast. It does better in hayfields, but even then runs out after a few years.Rotationally grazing horses, moving them promptly once they’ve eaten a section down, then clipping each section as they come off it with a sickle bar mower, is a sound recipe for improving the pasture, horses, and teamster. Adding other species (sheep and beef cattle are my recommendations) would speed up the pasture improvement. Sheep are the quickest to improve a pasture, in my experience.
-Tevis
August 29, 2008 at 2:54 am #47248jen judkinsParticipantYou guys rock! I’m so relieved…the thought of starting completely from scratch was making me dizzy! Time, I can deal with, lol.
One of you mentioned goldenrod and bedstraw…which are the two main culprits in my fields. The horses will, of course not touch either of these. I just got a couple of goats (surprise adoption…long story) and they seem to like the bedstraw, but I prefer to put them on the edges of the pasture for control of the invasive buckthorns I have, for now (wow… am I learning about fencing!). Would cows eat the goldenrod and bedstraw? I’ve considered raising my own beef and could only handle one or two at a time given my acreage. Perhaps I could divide up the old pasture and have cows devour the weeds for the first half of the season, next year?
Carl, when do you prefer to broadcast…anytime you move the animals off or at certain times of the year. I thought about doing a frost broadcast in the late winter/early spring…does that sound reasonable?
Tevis, I appreciate the feedback on the clover and alfalfa. In regards to sheep, I have a friend in western mass with alot of land. Initially he had sheep graze first then cows then the horses rotationally. So I was surprised last month when I visited that he had sold all his sheep and bought a herd of Boer goats. He feels that they are as good as sheep, plus they are much easier to move from place to place and are more people friendly. I thought that was interesting. I’m still processing what I have learned from the two goats I now own, lol. They are pygmies and should be easy to keep in but they are so crafty. Just yesterday I watched one jump from a rock, nearly 5 feet over a fence, to land squarely on all four cloven feet…amazing!
Anyway, thanks for the info. Jennifer.
August 29, 2008 at 9:34 am #47237Carl RussellModeratorAny time on the seed, but soil moisture is a good addition, ie. spring-early summer gives the growing season for establishment. Also hooves break up the sod and expose bare dirt for seed to take hold. Cows won’t do much for golden rod, but mowing or clipping following grazers will nail it in just a few seasons, cut before seeds develop. Good luck with the goats. Carl
August 29, 2008 at 1:26 pm #47235Gabe AyersKeymasterLots of experience posted here about renewing pasture land.
I would add that I was introduced to Birdsfoot Trefoil when in the northeast as a legume used in old skid trail stabilization and thought it could be a great pasture addition and hay. So I did a little research and found a few different varieties and over seeded it into our pasture and hay fields. We call it poor mans alfalfa, but it is actually better.
It has done great. It last longer that any alfalfa and the taller varieties with actually make in the barn with just the right haying techniques. Trefoil doesn’t have the weevil damage that alfalfa does and doesn’t require the fertility or ph of alfalfa. So look into that legume to improve your grazing and soil conditions in the NE.
Inoculation is an issue, do what is recommended by the seed seller.
We have also over seeded yellow blossom sweet clover for a temporary legume presences that all the stock seem to eat. It is cheap and the number one nitrogen fixer and honey crop.
If their is not enough soil exposed then a light disking could help cover the seed that are broadcast over the ground. Frost seeding will work too. Dragging will tend to clump or make little doodles out of any organic matter left from mowing. Letting the clippings lay where they fall is best and just light disking after broadcasting seed with cover them.
All these recommendations are good proven sound farming practices. Good luck with it.
August 29, 2008 at 2:03 pm #47253TheloggerswifeParticipantWe purchased our first 5 highland cows to take back our pastures after purchasing our farm. They eat pretty much anything….burdocks, velvet leaf, etc. They also beat the brush and trees back with their horns. We have had great luck with them and we do rotate the graising with several different pastures to avoid pasture burnout.
August 30, 2008 at 12:28 am #47245Donn HewesKeymasterLots of great ideas written above. We use horses and mules following sheep and move our graziers every day. that does have a great effect on the pastures. I also clip ( mowing pastures after grazing ) a lot; It is very satisfying horse work. This summer all the rain has held up my hay making, so I clipped more than ever; probably close to 80 acres at this point. All 1, 2, or 3 acres at a time, and many pastures have been clipped more than once. Great results – pastures all green and full of clover. All the extra clipping is starting to have an impact on my bedstraw problem. See clipping pictures here. This June I started to renovate 15 acres across the street for a hay field; solid golden rod. Out of use for at least six years and no fences or water for grazing. I brush hogged it once to save my mowers from the damage of, well brush. Now I am finishing clipping for the first time. Already starting to see grasses coming in. May have to mow it three times next year, but that beats plowing it. I will try to clip it once a year and hay it once a year. I will report the progress as it goes along. Donn
August 30, 2008 at 12:55 pm #47239Carl RussellModeratorBachelorFarmer;2515 wrote:Let me speak as a practical farmer. ……If there is not sufficient “good” desirable plants already existing in the field with which to produce seed, then the gradual reseeding described by others will not work. You can only make so many silk purses out of one sows ear… A really cheap method is just to use a hand spinner seeder and buy some grass seed and fling it on in the pious hope that a small percentage might catch…. The key is to kill the weeds first. I tend to think as a farmer who rotates crops and grows a variety of things. Sometimes an old weedy sod like you describe NEEDS breaking up as it has become “sod bound” ….. The soil needs oxygen to be healthy, when it is hardpan and compacted with big weeds sucking the life out of it, then sometimes a total shakeup is all that will rejuvenate it. ……
I appreciate what BF is saying here, especially because he shares a common perspective of farming the crop and not the soil.
The relation ship between soil, plants, and animals has been established for an extremely long time. The success of the many species of grazing animals on this earth is the result of ecological factors of soil biology that are supported by that relationship.
If the only concern is a fully stocked crop of a few highly preferred species, then intensive cropping is a quick way to get there. However, using chemical herbicides, and plowing only serve to interrupt the ecological processes of soils biology.
The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of “unfavorable” plants that grazers will consume that they will use to their advantage. Allowing plants to die on the stump, so to speak, either from grazing, or from clipping will contribute organic material in the form of roots directly to the soil, while feeding soil organisms that enhance the overall function of the soil through their own consumption and production of enzymes, etc.
Having animals cover the ground breaks up sod, distributes nutrients, and cultivates, or retards, the growth of plants, all without the use of fossil fuels, or highly costly equipment.
There is also a huge body of experience that broad casting seed of desirable species in conjunction with grazing is in fact very effective.
By using methods that enhance and cultivate soil biological function, the desired crop CAN be developed, at the same time developing healthy soil. Healthy soil is the primary aspect of having healthy animals.
It takes time, especially on soils in which that biology has been disturbed.
But employing quick disruptive methods, only serves to perpetuate a cultivation process that requires continued intensive techniques, requiring energy intensive technologies, with financially and ecologically costly inputs.Carl
August 31, 2008 at 1:54 am #47247Crabapple FarmParticipantMy cattle mostly avoid the goldenrod, but eat bedstraw. The sheep eat the goldenrod down well when it is still relatively young and tender, and strip the leaves off the older stuff but don’t eat the stems.
Thanks, Jason, for bringing up Sweetclover and Trefoil. Depending on soil type they might be the best adapted legumes. Trefoil has a reputation, however, for growing happily on the side of the road but not when you plant it. Sweetclover likes roadsides as well as nice fields.Re: goats are easier to move than sheep.
Depends on your fencing and moving system. We raised up some alpine bucklings one summer, and won’t get goats again. The trick with goats is that they follow you. Sometimes that’s great. But if you’re trying to set up flexinet with half a dozen bucklings nipping at your heals getting tangled in it, that’s another story. I prefer the sheep, who wait patiently in their fence for me to finish and open a gate for them to go through. The goats got impatient, jumped the fence, and tried to help. Sounds like you’re getting some experience with the jumping factor. Our goats would stay in the fence as long as there weren’t any people around. But if they saw us, they’d come meet us halfway. But they were bottle babies, which certainly didn’t help.I just want to restate that careful grazing and mowing can work wonders. There may be bigger guns that you could pull out if you wanted (tillage, herbicide), but big guns have a tendency to cause collateral damage.
If there’s not enough good stuff there to encourage, get some late-cut first cutting hay with seeds in it and feed that either in the field or spread the manure there. Just try to get the hay off of a field that has what you want in it and not even worse weeds.-Tevis
September 1, 2008 at 10:03 am #47244Does’ LeapParticipantWe are using 8 pigs in two net fences on a field full of milkweed, golden rod, and fern. After a week, they tear up the paddock and I broadcast a mixture of oats, forage brassica, and millet. We hope to then graze this with goats and plant some perennial grasses and legumes. The seed is coming up nicely, but the field is a little rough. I think after a few passes with goats and horses it should even out.
George
September 1, 2008 at 11:11 pm #47249jen judkinsParticipantThanks for all the advice everyone!
First, let me say that I cannot and will not use herbicides on my property. Not only does that ‘feel’ wrong to me, I now understand that it really IS unnecessary and can lead to soil issues, insect population effects and runoff later. I don’t mind a few weeds…I just want the feed plants to outnumber them. Besides this project is more of an exploration for me, into ways to manage soil and animals in a ecologically responsible way. I think this is why the owner of the property has given me the opportunity and why I asked advice here and not the local Agway. I’d like, more than the pure desire to grow pasture, to improve the soil, the pasture and the environment in its creation. Land that produces sustenance for a variety of animals, insects and the soil itself is my ultimate goal. Disrupting that cycle with herbicides seems counter-productive.
I like the pig idea, George!
And Tevis, thanks for the clarification on the sheep. I can totally relate. Goats are sooo people friendly…I think unless you have them very distant from your home, they will be a problem. My mom who is a knitter would definately prefer sheep, lol. We’re managing so far though with the goats.
Thanks again. Jennifer.
September 2, 2008 at 12:08 am #47240HowieParticipantJust because you do not like a certain plant (weed) does not mean you should kill all of it’s neighbors.
Just because you dont like a certain bug does not mean you should kill them all.
I do use a weed killer on the driveway only. I use a fly repelent on my steers. The other weeds I mow the other bugs I feed to the birds and bats.
We have a lot of bird houses and bat houses, we also make the barn handy for the barn swallows.September 2, 2008 at 1:31 pm #47236Gabe AyersKeymasterAnother point about renovation of soil is the fact that weeds are specific trace element accumulators. The presence of certain weeds can indicate certain micro nutrient needs in the soil and natures way of correcting that is reflected in the presence of these “weeds”. So mowing the weeds and leaving their above ground bodies and below ground roots to decompose may help with overall soil fertility as well as tilth.
There are also some studies that suggest some crops will grow better with some specific weeds. Makes sense.
This is an understanding based upon sound agriculture science and is not a part of rescue chemical dependent farming. It is also in agreement with other philosophies that advise a rotation that includes letting the ground go fallow once every seven years. I don’t think this means do nothing, but to take what the land has to offer and give it back to itself. The fact that weeds do reflect subtle differences in soil fertility or lack of and can be a contributor to the replenishing of the soil seems like a nice natural plan. Mowing them with a sickle bar keeps them right where they came from, to rot and add to soil fertility. If you have to mow several times, so be it, use your animal power and keep it carbon positive….
I also think subsoiling old cropland can be useful for rejuvenation, as a part of tillage for soil fertility not just crop production.
Let us know how it turns out. Thanks for posting…
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