Training babies….

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  • #39819
    jen judkins
    Participant

    Aww well….after my 2 year old (with whom I thought I was making so much great progress) got away from me in a training session last week and jumped a 4 foot fence, I got to thinking!?! I got him straight away and brought him back to the arena and we finished the lesson, but I was surprised he had that in him at this point….he spooked, I was caught off guard and didn’t have the leverage to keep him from bolting (luckily he was not in harness). So I’m worried now that I am not spending the amount of time I should be with his training or worse yet, I’m screwing up somehow. He still doesn’t seem to get the point that we are ‘working’ vs ‘playing’. The reality of training a baby of this size is now dawning on me, lol! I’ve decided to send him off for training. Ted Russell agreed to evaluate him over 2 weeks for me. I’m sure it will be money well spent, but I have never sent a horse off for training. I kind of feel like I’m sending my kid off to his first day of school!:confused:

    So any feedback would be appreciated. Do I just drop him off and wait for the report card? Should I plan to participate as much as possible (like on the weekends)? How long would you put a two year old in daily training? I’m kind of feeling like a failure here, but am triing to be proactive. Jennifer.

    #47559
    OldKat
    Participant

    @jenjudkins 2962 wrote:

    Aww well….after my 2 year old (with whom I thought I was making so much great progress) got away from me in a training session last week and jumped a 4 foot fence, I got to thinking!?! I got him straight away and brought him back to the arena and we finished the lesson, but I was surprised he had that in him at this point….he spooked, I was caught off guard and didn’t have the leverage to keep him from bolting (luckily he was not in harness). So I’m worried now that I am not spending the amount of time I should be with his training or worse yet, I’m screwing up somehow. He still doesn’t seem to get the point that we are ‘working’ vs ‘playing’. The reality of training a baby of this size is now dawning on me, lol! I’ve decided to send him off for training. Ted Russell agreed to evaluate him over 2 weeks for me. I’m sure it will be money well spent, but I have never sent a horse off for training. I kind of feel like I’m sending my kid off to his first day of school!:confused:

    So any feedback would be appreciated. Do I just drop him off and wait for the report card? Should I plan to participate as much as possible (like on the weekends)? How long would you put a two year old in daily training? I’m kind of feeling like a failure here, but am triing to be proactive. Jennifer.

    Jennifer: For my first post ever on this forum, yes maybe I can help you. I have a couple of 4 year old Percheron mares that I bought as weanlings (actually adopted from a PMU rescue outfit). About this time last year I decided that my work situation was never going to allow me to spend the time with them that they really needed.

    Although I had owned horses my entire life, and even owned Percherons before, I had never trained youngsters under harness. I opted to have an Amish guy that lives “relatively” close to me farm with them all last Winter (in South Texas field work starts in December and planting is done by mid February) and into the Spring. Yes when I dropped them off it did feel a little like the time I took my now 25 year old daughter to her first day of kindergarten.

    They were about 160 miles or so away, so I couldn’t just drop by every evening after work. I did manage to get down there about every 3 or 4 weeks for a day or a day & a half. During the first visits I just watched; later on I would drive them as singles, part of a threesome or the two of them as a team. THE BEST thing I ever did, best money I ever spent. When I got them back it was mid-April and it gets really hot here about mid-May. I found that they didn’t do real well when it got really hot, so I elected to give them a breather until it started to cool off in the Fall. Hurricane Ike has pushed that back even a little further. Yes, I realize that stopping them like that while they were in training was not the ideal situation, but I have worked enough horses in this climate to know that when they are hot and sweaty & so am I, that the training is not all that productive anyway. I would say if you have a capable trainer nearby and you are the least bit unsure about where you stand with your youngster, don’t have too much pride … call in the pro.

    Rambling, but hope it helps.

    OldKat

    #47555
    Theloggerswife
    Participant

    I have to say this is probably the best thing you could do. Of course I am a very bias in my opinion. Ted is my husband’s best friend and my mentor. He has been my mentor since I purchase my first team of Belgians a year ago. He has been a wealth of knowledge for me. Rest assured that you have made a wise choice. You are dropping off your “baby” but I cannot think of a better sitter for them!

    #47549
    jen judkins
    Participant

    OMG, you guys are the best! I’m feeling much better about my decision!

    I met Ted at the Beginner Driving clinic at Shelburne Farms and loved his quiet confident manner, so I am sure he will be a great choice for Peanut. Thanks for the encouragement. Jennifer.

    #47554
    dominiquer60
    Moderator

    Go for it Jen! We may know the alphabet and our times tables, but trainers/teachers have an efficient way of teaching them to youngsters. Even Professionals seek help, you can’t tell me that even the most mature of teamsters at the NEAPFD didn’t walk away from that event without taking away a little new knowledge home. Another example is a friend of mine, she was at the 1992 Olympics with her eventing mare, she trains a lot of horses year round. She makes sure to stay at her best by taking lessons from other professionals, even Olympians need the keen eye of someone on the ground that can see the whole picture. There is nothing wrong with sending the youngster away to someone with a good reputation, they get it done safer, better and more efficiently than we could.

    #47544
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    Jenn, Just remember that you are as unclear about the situation as Peanut is. So if he will gain from exposure to Ted, so will you. It will do you very little good if Peanut figures it out, but you’re still back at the place where he left you.

    Find the time when you can take off from work, and put in the time with Ted yourself. THAT will be the best money ever spent, because it isn’t about how much time you spend training, it’s about how you spend the time when you’re training. If Ted can make headway, you need to see how he does it, and bring that home with you.

    Good luck, Carl

    #47556
    Theloggerswife
    Participant

    I agree 100% with Carl. The time I have spent with Ted and his knowledge is what they call “Priceless”. When you are there with him can coach you how to react when the horse desides to do something less then desireable. It is much easier for you to be there to see and experience then to have him explain it to you at a later time. I am lucky enough to live 2-3 miles down the road from him, and I call on his knowledge ALOT!

    Between Ted and my older trained team ~ they have ME almost trained to the middle beginner level!

    #47550
    jen judkins
    Participant

    Thanks again everyone for the encouragement!

    Carl, You point (as always:D) is well taken. Its as if I cannot see the next step and Peanut is confused by that.

    Its interesting….since I have known I would have to put him on a trailer on Saturday to bring him out to Ted, I have been setting aside some time each evening to work on loading, standing, unloading, etc. in anticipation of the trip. I’ve trained many, many horses to self load into trailers of all shapes and sizes and to travel confidently. So its no surprise that Peanut is ‘getting’ this piece without any problems at all. But your point brought to the forefront for me the fact that it is my confident vision of what the endpoint is that is helping him learn. Its not that he is perfect at loading and unloading (and that is not even on the agenda for this week), but in each session he has shown dramatic leaps in his understanding of what I am asking. He is finally showing signs that he understands that I am asking a question and he needs to figure out what the right answer is, which is the piece I have been struggling with, in his training. I guess this goes back to the ‘putting principles to purpose’ idea. So I am now much more optimistic that getting help from someone like Ted is totally the right choice both for Peanut and for me. It will get him a good start and me a better vision of where we are going and what the steps are to get there.

    Jennifer.

    #47548
    Does’ Leap
    Participant

    Hi Jennifer,

    Your experience with trailer loading is interesting..you are a skilled horsewoman and rider -why not start working with Peanut under saddle? It seems like a place to distinguish “work from play” where you have confidence and a clear vision of what you want to accomplish. Having been a rider first myself I have been surprised by what a different experience driving is. We bought a team with lots of time in harness, but they are young and had never been subjected to beginners. They could sense our lack of confidence and it made them nervous. We’ve used them regularly for a year now, and I’m just feeling that we have our calm relaxed team back. They have survived us, but there were times I despaired we we ruining them!

    Our horses had never been ridden,and they were very anxious about it but I feel so much better prepared to handle situations when on their back than behind them. I think our riding relationship has been very good for our working relationship as well.

    I know your goal is to work in harness, and hats off to you for changing course before you feel over your head. But it seems like working under saddle could be a good step toward getting there, since it is your home turf.

    Just an idea anyway,I know nothing of training babies but can certainly relate to the struggles of a novice teamster!

    Kristan

    #47546
    Plowboy
    Participant

    In recent times all the books videos and articles from the self proclaimed trainers stress endless ground work. While some is necessary so the transition to work isn’t a complete shock. We halter break ours young, usually get harnessed and ground driven a little as yearlings. At two we hitch them up and start them on light work and by three they can earn there keep with the rest of the herd. It sounds like your horse needs a small job to keep his mind occupied, he is nearly an adult now and should start taking on some sort of a task even if he just thinks it is a task. Dragging a stoneboat or small log around your roundpen might just do it. You have done right getting some experienced help. Learn all you can from the trainer and the next one will be a breeze. Good luck he looks like a nice horse and I hope he turns out well for you.

    #47545
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    Jenn, Sounds like you’ve got a good plan, and handle on the situation.

    I just had a few more thoughts.

    Whenever I work with beginner animals, (having a clear picture of what I expect) I tend to push the envelope. One reason is to advance the animal toward the goal, the other is to measure where they are in the process. No two animals are the same in how they process, and accept direction, so I am constantly teasing them to get them to show me where they are by how they react.

    This also helps in another way, by keeping me in front as the instigator/leader. A young horse like Peanut is growing mentally as well, and he is motivated instinctively to test and demonstrate his growing awareness. It does require a clear vision, and a box full of trick to stay ahead of him. As you found out when you started working on trailer loading, your vision and initiative is attractive to him.

    I agree with Kristin that saddling him will be a good use of your skills and experience.

    Ted should also help to form that picture of the steps toward working that Plowboy describes. I use the same time-line as he describes, but I have a lot of experience in the work that I expect to perform.

    But all-in-all, anything that you can throw into the mix that keeps his focus on you as the brave and intelligent motivator will advance your cause.

    You may also be getting a lesson in facilities, as if you want to push him in an enclosure, you’ll need a taller fence. One of my early mentors was known for getting horses that had spent years on pasture, unapproachable in all ways, and getting them back on track. All of his fence posts were telephone poles, and everything looked incredibly over-built, but his philosophy was he had to be completely confident that the experience was just between himself and the horse, so that eventually the horse would understand that as well.This isn’t exactly your situation, but now that Peanut has an out, you have lost a certain point of confidence. It is not so much a set-back, as an opportunity to learn and adapt, to show your leadership.

    Oh well just a few thoughts, Carl

    #47551
    jen judkins
    Participant

    Kristen, You and George have definately done it the right way! I am constantly telling riders to find a horse that knows its job and let the horse teach them. Most horses are very tolerant of beginners if they have the right training. I just can’t seem to follow my own advice!!!:rolleyes:

    I learned to ride (and to fall off) on a green horse. Still have that horse too and although he is aging, much like myself, the working relationship is good. It was the hard way, but we both survived. So when I decided to learn about driving and working horses, I, of course, bought a baby. I’m known by many as a serious ‘blockhead’…its my swedish heritage….stubborn to the core!

    But your point about riding has new appeal to me now that I see how much progress we have made in the past week working on something I understand so well. I’ve already saddled him and I have 3 or 4 rides in, but nothing major and not recently. I’ve put it off, as I feel like he is too young to do too much riding, and I’ll likely have a saddle fit issue at this point, lol. But I can get alot done bareback, so I think I will try that, especially in the spring when he is coming 3. Thanks for pointing that out. Jennifer.

    #47552
    jen judkins
    Participant

    OK so Peanut is doing great over at Ted’s place. Ted had him harnessed with his ‘steady eddie’, Clayton in two days and has been harrowing/discing with them all week…I’m completely amazed, though I’m sure most of you are like, ‘whatever’! But I could never have accomplished this on my own…not in several years, lol!

    So I went out today to sit in on Peanut’s training for the afternoon. We hitched them up, Ted giving me the highlights of where Peanut is having difficulties and what he is working on. Then we go for a drive. Ted tells me that on the first go round, Clayton basically dragged Peanut round til he got the picture. The lights came on pretty quick apparently and now Peanut is mostly carrying his own share of the load. Today, Ted picked the manure spreader… was I impressed. We didn’t actually spread any manure but ran the thing and boy what a racket! Peanut did great, taking all his cues from Clayton who was steady as a rock (and as big as a boulder).

    The next step is to get him confident enough to drive singley. So far he seems to rely heavily on Clayton for his confidence…but I’ll leave that to Ted…who seems unflustered by anything. Best money I ever spent!

    Jennifer.

    PS. The D ring harness Peanut is wearing (pictured below…the blonder horse on the left/near side?) is apparently slightly big for him, but I do think it shows how the weight is transfered to the back and not the neck. In fact all the sweat marks I noticed were on the back and not under the collar. A novice perspective, however.

    #47547
    Plowboy
    Participant

    Glad to hear your colt is doing well. The best ingredient to make an excellent work horse is a sweaty collar. Driving them often and doing meaningfull work will be beneficial to both of you when he comes home. We started out with two Percheron weanlings because good teams were $4000 at the time. When they got old enough we thought we needed to take them to a professional for training. The mindset in the beginning makes you think it’s a big undertaking. In a discussion with the folks we got our weanlings from about who to get to train them they offered to help us do it ourselves. During my February break from school we took them back where they came from and teamed them each with an experienced team mate. For the next week they skidded firewood, hauled wood on a bobsled, and moved roundbales learning from Pet and Dolly. The following week they did more of the same work together as a team Maude was solid as a rock and Mike more nervous but Maude kept him in check. I as a young boy learned to go solo with a big young well trained team of grey mares Dixie and Maggie while we were there. At the end of a two week period we loaded up our young team our friends Dick and Herb said, “Drive them often and you’ll have a great team there”. Since then we have trained all our own and helped others get some going. Also each winter on sunny Sunday afternoons we still go back and help Dick start his two year olds. I guess we got the bug from them. Dicks uncle Herb is gone now but often when I’m out in the field or the woods working horses I remember the things he said and taught me all those years ago. Good Luck with your colt.

    #47557
    LStone
    Participant

    Hello all,

    I have a question for the group. I have a 2yo Belgian filly in April. I’ve had her for 9 months now. She came “halter broke” and since she has been at my place including an episode in the trailer on the way home, she’s had a hard time proving it to me. I try to be conscious of her fear and demonstrate patience when she is tied by taking my time, using a lot of contact etc. but she overreacts by violently Jerking her head up and jumping backward, in a reaction to motion and shadows etc. She is breaking halter hardware, lead ropes, crossties etc. I started her in harness and she is the same way in the blinders as well.

    I am afraid I am going to have more problems as she gets bigger and stronger. She hasn’t pulled down the barn yet but I believe it’s only a matter of time. Other than that she’s a real keeper.

    Any thoughts? I would appreciate it.

    Thank you,

    LStone

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