DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Draft Animal Power › Oxen › learning oxen to drive with nose rings
- This topic has 13 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 6 months ago by hayhoss.
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- November 19, 2008 at 10:33 pm #39921bivolParticipant
hi!
anyone here has experience with training or driving oxen with a nose rings?
does it hurt the animals? but i can’t imagine piercing a nose hurts more than castration…
when do you put the nose rings if you start training them as calves?
do nose rings make headshy animals?
the main goal here would be to provide accurate control for driving wagon and plowing.how do you learn oxen to drive, or to go ahead of you?
December 24, 2008 at 9:51 pm #48268bugmanParticipantIwas thinking the same thing. And where do you get the rings? What does the vet charge for the piercing? Thanks for any info
December 24, 2008 at 11:22 pm #48263bivolParticipant@bugman 4234 wrote:
Iwas thinking the same thing. And where do you get the rings? What does the vet charge for the piercing? Thanks for any info
well i’ll tell you what i know: i personally think nose ring system, if used properly, does not make the animals headshy. what makes them headshy are wrongly attached nose-rings, nose rings who are connected between animals themselves. this system of control sucks, if i may say, rather don’t use any nose rings than this, as the animals constantly tug at each other’s noses as they go, which hurts them, so they asociate payne with movement. this makes them headshy.
the “right way” to do it, if i may say so, is to attach a line that leads from each animal’s nose ring directly and only to the teamster’s hands. in the sence the nose ring serve as brakes, if you use a yoke. (and i recommend it if you use lines) if you pull the left ox’s nose ring, he stops and the right ox keeps walking and the yoke turns left. same to right. you pull both if you want to stop.
noserings can be used on any breed of cattle, but are, i think, most affective on alert and excitable cattle breeds, or cattle which are being trained mature.
here is a text which i saved, from ayudarna fellowship, or hare krisna, on the subject…
“Because of the fine control one gets by nasal harnessing, driving them becomes accessible to everybody regardless of size, sex or age. This makes ox driving easy to take up. The simplicity of the system means anybody can take it up, train the oxen and work them.
A friend of mine wanted something to do for the bulls, so I asked him to train the bull calves. He was a bit bemused because he had no experience with oxen what to speak of training them. The two bull calves had been castrated at one year of age and at the same time had nose rings put in. We put the oxen in a small training yoke. Their nose ring, looped around the back of the head and then secured to the center of the back of the head. A small two wheel cart (more or less a seat on two wheels) was fixed to the yoke. My friend sat on the cart and from the start he was driving the bulls all over the field. To move left he called Haw, he stopped the left bull by pulling back on the rope attached to the left bull s nose and, at the same time, gently tapped the right bull to keep it moving around the left bull. To turn right he called Gee, pulled the right bull and tapped the left bull. To stop he called Whoa and pulled back on both bulls. To start he called Get Up and tapped both bulls.
As you can see this system is so simple that anybody, even without experience can do it. Obviously to have the bulls working well you must work them regularly. Gentleness and firmness should be the attitude of the driver.
The bulls of Bhaktivedanta Manor are all harnessed by the same method. They system is so amazing that the bulls are used extensively for padayatras, festivals and carnivals. All these involve the bulls pulling a cart through very busy roads, where lorries, buses, cars, etc. are rushing past. The nasal harness gives pinpoint control of the bulls.
Personally, I would encourage everybody to take up any system of training bulls, but I must say, from my experience and by confirmation of scripture, the system of nasal control seems the most practical and easy to implement”
oxen become sore nosed if the nose ring is put in too soon, when they are still calves. my best guess is to learn the calves to follow you, and tame them. when they grow big enough, than put the nose rings in. and simple two lines work best, no four lines (one for each side of turning) are needed.
nose rings should be broad, not to deform the noses, like those on the pictures bellow.with nose rings, and ofcourse training and practice, you will more easy learn oxen to plow alone. my guess is thar once the cattle learn to defy lou even to the least degree, while you are walking by then, they will always defy you more openlly once you move back to plow. with nose rings, cattle know you can always control them and make them listen by pulling the rope, they can, compared to another team with equal training but no nose rings, always be better controled than those without nasal cont. the point is, cattle you walk by know thast you can’t punish them as effectivelly when you’re not around. cattle driven with nose rings always can be, and are used to, being controled from behind. they may not see you, but they know, if they act up they can expect a tug.
you can use nose’rings in oxen in head yoke, like in cuba.
well i hope i could help!Marko
December 25, 2008 at 12:41 am #48269bugmanParticipanthey thanks for the info. I have raised bottle babies before with hopes of training a pair but have never gotten to the point of hitching and pulling.
I still have alot to learn.March 26, 2009 at 2:42 pm #48270FarmerFredParticipantSee i’ve always thought that this would hurt the animal but after reading this site i guess in a way Public Liability Insurance Quote is just like having their nose peirced and if they are doing it when they are young then it doesn’t really affect them as they don’t know any different.
But i could be wrong but i would have thought there would be a much bigger furore about this if the animals were really in pain all the time from it.
March 26, 2009 at 7:30 pm #48260VickiParticipantMy opinion from what I’ve done and seen: cattle do not require nose rings to be controlled, even by small children, when trained consistently with psychological dominance. Obviously, the person driving the cattle must have some training too, just like you need to know some important basics before you can control an automobile. Of course, nose rings “work”, but I’d rather control a bovine from “inside its head” than from pain compliance. It doesn’t hurt the cattle to have the ring, but to pull on it.
March 26, 2009 at 7:35 pm #48261VickiParticipantMy previous comment was for bugman. For bivol: no, I have not used nose rings to train cattle, but I know people in the USA who have.
FarmerFred: As far as furor, some animal activists are outraged that my cattle wear a yoke; I would not even want to appear in public in the USA with a cattle controlled by a ring in its nose.
March 26, 2009 at 8:02 pm #48267CharlyBonifazMemberI would not even want to appear in public in the USA with a cattle controlled by a ring in its nose.
spent some time in Texas Longhorn country and found quite a number of them controlled by a nose-peg while being ridden.
Worked just fine……
as always: one has to use these aids sensiblyMarch 27, 2009 at 12:21 pm #48259HowieParticipantThere is no more need for a nose bit to hurt in cattle than there is for a straight bit to hurt in a horse.:p
March 27, 2009 at 10:24 pm #48264bivolParticipant@FarmerFred 7415 wrote:
See i’ve always thought that this would hurt the animal but after reading this site i guess in a way it is just like having their nose peirced and if they are doing it when they are young then it doesn’t really affect them as they don’t know any different.
But i could be wrong but i would have thought there would be a much bigger furore about this if the animals were really in pain all the time from it.
well, with nose rings you can also make some mistakes. one is to fit them to calves (really no need), and not exchange them when they grow. this will hurt the calves. it’s the best to fit them on adult animals.
the nose rings do hurt the cattle if you pull hard, but i guess it’s like a human being cajoled by the ear. once you don’t move, it’ll really hurt, but the second time you’ll follow the much easier pull.
oxen are smart, they will stop at the slightest pull once they learn it causes them pain. so, it does hurt as the last resort, but oxen usually comply before.the oxen feel the nose rings a while after they are put in, but i think they get used to it, and don’t feel them later, except when you pull.
ifvicki, ofcourse you can use the oxen without nose rings, but it is more practical for some purposes, like plowing alone. i can’t guarantee someone would want to help me plow the field by holding a plow for several hours. and if i would find that person (highly unlikely in my country), he’d probably charge me more than it’s reasonable to pay. and you can also drive on a cart, and not walk in front. that’s why i like them.
i wrote this before, but i’ll post it one more time:”cattle driven with nose rings always can be, and are used to, being controled from behind. they may not see you, but they know, if they act up they can expect a tug.”
and because they know you can always discipline them, and they don’t know weather you are looking at them, they will be less likely to act up, if they have prior training.
as for animal activists, they are not rational in their demands, don’t have the knowledge, but have lots of prejudices, and are usually extremists, and extremism of any kind is bad. allthough i have seen a picture of two oxen in harness and with nose rings on a parade in texas.
March 28, 2009 at 9:39 pm #48262VickiParticipantSee Bill Speiden drive from behind while sitting on a straw bale on a stoneboat, using lines attached to his oxen’s halters. http://www.modaox.us, go to Gathering 2008, pics 12 and 13.
See Ray Ludwig plowing while seated on a sulky plow with a long lash in hand in his booklet “Pride and Joy of Working Cattle.”
March 29, 2009 at 12:18 am #48265bivolParticipantthe pictures are great! thanks for letting us know!
May 3, 2009 at 3:47 pm #48271hayhossParticipantI have a very nice Brahman bull I would like to put a ring, or bit in. What kind of metal should I use? I need to know the exact placement of the piercing. How far back or forward? He is absolutely a wonderfull animal except the propensity to run off. I refuse to castrate him, so I beleive a nose ring will be nessasary.
May 3, 2009 at 9:52 pm #48266bivolParticipant@hayhoss 8482 wrote:
I have a very nice Brahman bull I would like to put a ring, or bit in. What kind of metal should I use? I need to know the exact placement of the piercing. How far back or forward? He is absolutely a wonderfull animal except the propensity to run off. I refuse to castrate him, so I beleive a nose ring will be nessasary.
firstly, bovine mouth is not designed for a bit. i guess it can be used, but i would rather use a nose ring.
anyway, here are some links that could help.
http://www.fao.org/wairdocs/ILRI/x5483B/x5483b10.htm#preparation%20of%20work%20oxen
http://www.fao.org/ag/aGa/agap/FRG/Draught/contents.htm
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