Intact bulls as draft power?

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  • #40010
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Can an intact bull be used for draft power, or will he be too “bull-headed” and full of testosterone to be reliable?

    We’re looking at 9 acres right now and I’m considering a pair of Milking Devons or Dexters. I’d like to breed the cow and raise the calves for meat.

    #48741
    Howie
    Participant

    Bulls were used for work quite a bit years ago. If they were going to be used for work they generaly would not let them be near a cow. The big woods teams would have one bull in the team just to keep the others on edge.
    I like working cows, with 9 acres a good pair of Milking Devon cows would be all you would need.
    I used them for years. Buy a 6 month old bull in the fall and breed the cows with him the next spring. Then that fall you butcher him for beef and buy another.

    #48750
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I got this response to that question on one of my homesteading forums…..

    No, no, no! Absolutely not! Under no condition!

    Bulls are unpredictable and while 99% of the time a particular animal could be as easy as pie to get along with, the other 1% he would kill you if he got the chance. As in smash you into the ground and grind you into it.

    Never, ever, take a chance on a bull like that. Ever.

    and this….

    We’ve had some bulls that were relatively gentle (for bulls), but they can have a hair trigger temper. Even the “tame” ones can’t be trusted EVER.

    Those folks might know cattle, but they surely don’t know anything about draft animals. After two years on the list I have never seen a draft animal question that wasn’t asked by me. And I’ve never received an answer other than “Why bother?” of “Get a tractor”.

    Howie, what does a 6 month old bull cost? Why not keep him around for service each year? I’m guessing that Devons or Dexters aren’t going to be all that easy to find around Williamsport. If I bred him only one cow each year that would give me a calf and a yearling on the farm every year until butchering time. And I’d only have one cow at a time milking. If the beef sold well I could always breed both each year. But that’s getting WAY ahead of my planned “slow and steady” building of the homestead.

    #48737
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    Hey Mike, great to see you back here.

    I have to agree to some degree.

    In fact I never trust any animal.

    This does not mean disrespect them, and it certainly does not mean fear them, but know that they are not computer programmed, and are completely unpredictable as such.

    This is also to reiterate that it is more important to be trust-worthy, than trust-ing.

    This being said, there is no reason why a bull can not be worked with from calf-hood to understand the rules of performing work.

    One of the old-timers that I used to buy hay from told of having to take over as interim farm manager at Vermont Technical College in the 1950’s. Among the many problems that he was charged with fixing, was a low conception rate. At that time they were still keeping bulls on the farm for the breeding program. He decided that the problem was that the bulls were over-fed and under exercised. He yoked them (they had never been trained for draft) and took them to the sugar-bush, skidding wood all winter, and gathering sap. Next fall there were calves dropping from nearly every cow, and they had some pretty well-mannered bulls.

    Carl

    #48761

    but know that they are not computer programmed, and are completely unpredictable as such.

    😀 can’t resist: this very unpredictability also applies to my computer…….

    back to bulls: may be it’s mainly a problem of disposition?
    in our meatproduction are primarily bulls, most in close quarters, and they need to be handled somehow, even when grown; there is any character you may think of: from the curious, friendly , docile, to the alphabulls, that will come at you when you haven’t even entered their box. some you can handle, others you shouldn’t even try.
    so my answer: it depends…..
    elke

    #48749
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Carl, it’s nice to be back. Life got a little crazy right before and right after my retirment. Cindy and I have our sights set on a nice little piece, about 9 acres that won’t break her check for commuting, but is far enough out that I won’t worry too much about hooligans. won’t make an offer until after Uncle Sam clobbers us for my lump-sum retirement payment. OUCH!! More as it develops.

    Great to hear that I can probably keep my plan for a breeder on the farm. Just have to make sure he’s not working around them when they’re in season, I guess.

    #48758
    bivol
    Participant

    well, you could use them in a head yoke and so unable them to go an you while you’re working. also, use nose-rings.

    #48756
    Joshua Kingsley
    Participant

    I know that it is not the same as a bull but I used to hook my draft stallion with mares in heat and out of heat all the time. I might also consider hooking either two bulls to have an alternate bloodline or to have a steer so as not to compromise your usability when you are wanting the cow to raise a calf or to milk . Just a thought I know that you are talking about having a small acreage, but I raised dexters for a while and found that they tend to be really thrifty, so one more would require minimal aditional feed.

    #48742
    Howie
    Participant

    Why not have two cows and the bull you are feeding to breed with is no more expensive for feed than one that you would keep to breed with. He will be growing where the other one is just trying to keep you on your toes.
    You should be able to buy a bull calf the size of a feeder calf for feeder calf price or very little more.
    If you have geneticly good cows you might be able to trade a bull calf for one from some one.

    #48748
    Plowboy
    Participant

    AI the cows. You will have more choices to improve your offspring. Two cows with good high udders will do your work for you. If you have too many calves you can sell the one you don’t want. An old friend of mine that I used to show Ayrshires with used to train a yoke of heifers every year for exhibition on the show circuit. Yearling heifers had nice ayrshire horns and he used to polish them with fine sandpaper and shine them up with olive oil. They looked great.

    #48757
    Joshua Kingsley
    Participant

    one problem with AI for dextes is that semen is limited and very expensive. Most places the only way to have it available would be to own a tank. I do see your point of using two cows though. I have seen many dexter bulls in this area ( Vermont ) sell for BIG money in my opinion. I think that 2500 is a little much for these young or small bulls. But it is only what I have seen around here and I understand that prices are likely to be diffrent in other areas.

    #48740
    Rod
    Participant

    That’s interesting because I have sold and bought a lot of Dexter bulls in VT and NH for anywhere between $500 and $1000. Dexter semen runs about $20 to 25 dollars a straw. My AI person has kept it in her tank for me.

    #48738
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    I knew as soon as I wrote the comment about computer programming that some wise-acre would throw out that comment, Elke!

    One of the reasons I told the story of the working bulls, was I was discussing using my steers for more farm work as I had lost a horse, and was weighing the value of using britchen so that they could more successfully replace the team of horses. The farmer was showing me how he had hitched britchen to his yoke to work the bulls because they were de-horned.

    This would be an option that may reduce the “danger” level. Any bovine that learns how to use their horns as a weapon can be extremely dangerous, and bulls are no doubt pre-disposed to this.

    I am surprised that you would be considering Dexters. They seem like good animals for small acreages, on the surface, but my experience has been mixed. I have never owned them, but I have to say that the ones I have cared for, and interacted with have got to be the most ornery, and unco-operative animals I have ever experienced. And you have to use a baking dish, and sit on your butt on the ground to get low enough to milk them. I’m sure that regular handling may develop a better outcome, but I have found so much better results from other breeds.

    We raise bulls from time to time, as a result of our breeding the milkers. We keep them around just for meat, I never train them to work, but I insist on the same manners that I do from my working animals. We handle them from the get-go with rope halter, being approachable in the field, moving into and out of the barn. We let the kids play with them until they get 4-5 month old. To this day, I have yet to have any different results with a bull than with a steer. They mind and understand.

    A problem may arise though when a bull is left to their own devices, especially early on. We had to borrow a bull last summer, as we were unable to get our cows to show adequate heat. He was an easy going 1 1/2 year old when he came, but was driven into my trailer from a field full of heifers. About the third time I came into the pasture to take the cow out to be milked, he turned, put his head down, and pawed the dirt. I let him know in no uncertain terms that the next time he did that, he would be looking at the world through that tight little hole under his tail. After that it took me several weeks before he learned that I was no threat to him as long as he didn’t face me like that. After the summer here I still had to get him into the trailer to handle him, but I could halter him, and lead him, but never turned my back on him.

    Any way to keep bulls around you will need to be committed to the breeding program, and seriously committed to having them as working animals, or at the very least manageable. Otherwise, Howie and plowboy are right-on, get one when you need it, use it, and slaughter it, or AI.

    Good luck, Carl

    #48751
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Howie, I’m sorry. I must be a little dense, but I’m just not understanding your last post. Please try again, unless I have stumbled on the correct answer.

    What I think you are proposing is starting with a feeder bull from an auction, then after his first year breed him to one of my cows, finish him out and freeze him at the end of the second year. Right?

    #48763
    Gulo
    Participant

    I have two additional questions related to this thread that probably don’t deserve a thread of their own.

    One was, what about a bull that has finished his breeding needs on your place that is then surgically castrated? Will this animal then become like a nicer-tempered ox with the muscling of a bull? I’ve been contemplating doing this with our yak bull.

    Also, for Carl – i have had the opposite advice from some, being – be too familiar and make a pet of your bull and that’s where the trouble starts – he loses respect. As a result i’ve reluctantly limited contact lately with our breeding yak bull, who was very much a pet, worried that it was the wrong approach. But maybe letting him get more wild is the wrong approach?

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