Holding them back

I don’t see this as something that just happened one day. Its a habit thats been developed. Without sounding mean. It isn’t something that will just go away over night
If I were in your situation I would start by slowing the way I was hitching. Harness and then leave them tied at the hitch rail while I went and did something else. Then come back later and hitch up to whatever piece of equipment and set there. Let them go to sleep. Then just pick up the line slack and ask them to walk off walk off. Not if but when they want to charge away. Stop them and let them go to sleep. Pick up your line slack and ask them to walk off. Repeat.
Harness them every day. Even when you don’t hitch them. Just let them stand and at the end of the day put them away.
I don’t see this as a mechinical problem. Its a confidence problem. And only building a new habit will correct it.
Yes, you can bit the animals heavier and band-aid the symptom but that doesn’t address the problem and often only serves to harden their mouths making the problem harder to deal with.
They need more confidence. That can only come from you, through your voice, your hands on the lines, then lots of time with their bodies collected working in a steady pace.
You may not get any work done, for a while, but you will change the habit of your horses.
Good luck

One of the most important things to remember about working horses, draft animals in general, is that it requires a lot of human time and labor.

The other thing to know is that this can be a very frustrating situation, leading to a feeling of defeat when it is so much work to get so little accomplished, but it is reversible with time and consistency.

Carl – IMO you hit THE basic solution to many horse problems. As a newer teamster, I think the time investment can be seriously overlooked (I have to admit – it surprised me). And most folks that you meet w/ drafts (and to some extent saddle horses) comment on how they are so busy they can’t spend the time they wish they could with their animals. IF you can use them for “work” – whether riding fences or skidding logs – you kind of kill 2 birds w/ one stone. The challenge is for those who have other day jobs to get in as much horse contact time as possible. Throw in crummy weather and …… suddenly you(I) struggle getting in good amounts of horse time.

Don’t get me wrong – I am not making excuses at all but rather agreeing with your comment and reinforcing the commitment necessary to develop and maintain a good relationship w/ your animals – and I’m still, and always will be, working at it.

Antsy to get out in the dirt. Geoff

Here is an alternative you may consider. Actually, all the advice above is good and will work with sufficient time and understanding (I don’t mean compassion, I mean accurately reading what is going on). I train and drive all my horses and mules with a method I call “no pressure” driving. That means when they are walking in the direction I want to go at the speed I want to go there will be no pressure on the bit. So what is the difference? I try to never return their pressure on the bit with pressure of my own; ie. “hold them back”. Instead when I ask them to go I expect them to walk, when one takes a step out of line I correct it with a non verbal command vie the lines. Tap, tap, tap, you are supposed to be walking here. If they don’t “hear” this I do it a little louder, again with the lines. They will learn to walk, and pull things with out any pressure on the bit. You have to train yourself to release all pressure at every opportunity to give them the chance to do it right. A trick I play on myself to make sure I am releasing them quickly and consistently is to translate every bump on the lines to words. For example, slow, left, right, come back, pay attention now. I can give those commands as fast as I can say them and I should be releasing just as quickly. Don’t make the mistake of thinking I am driving around without contact on my animals. Contact is extremely important to encouraging and developing a young team. I just don’t want pressure. For a young team I might have a constant chatter of signals going up the lines, but I want to know what each one is, like whispering in their ear. I have used this method with mules that were pulling hard on the lines with great effect. Any method you choose will require patience and time. Good luck. Donn

“Donn, I need some help. I’m having trouble understanding how no pressure on the lines from the human being is going to help this team wait until the human being wants them to go – calmly.”

Joel, I will try to help. His original question was about “holding them back”, I assumed these horses were moving and pulling on the bit. Your question above makes me think you think they are not standing, ie. “waiting until the human wants them to go” Now I am not sure.

“As I said in previous posts, I’m a k.i.s.s. kind of guy. This team & driver sound like they are still in kindergarden & you seem to be asking for high school work from them.”

I don’t think of myself as an un K.I.S.S. person but perhaps I am. I recommend “no pressure” driving to ever person who asks me. Therefore to me it is not Kindergarden or High School, It is how I drive and what I would teach any animal or person. If today was their first day that is what I would start to teach. As far as the animals go, I don’t think “no pressure” driving is something you will work up to gradually, like driving with light lines perhaps. I think it is best to go cold turkey if you want to drive that way and train the animals to drive that way.

I prefer this method for a variety of reasons. I believe it helps a horse or mule relax in work. I think it gives me another easy method of recognizing an animal that is not relaxed. Most of my farm work is spent 6 to 8 hours going around on an implement with two or four animals. I don’t like to use my forearms in this work, I want to use my brain and my hands.

I always try to preface my comments here with “this is what has worked for me – I am sure it is not for everyone”

“Thanks.” I hope I answered your questions a little. I am not sure I did. If you still want to know more about what I am doing feel free to ask. Sorry about the ” ” , I don’t think I know the magic way of moving your comments into my post. Donn

Near Horse, I don’t think anyone mentioned running those horses at all. Working them yes which is what the goal is to do some meaningfull work. I have worked with a whole lot of horses with different quirks and have been around alot of folks that train and actually do work with their animals. I am experienced but do not consider myself an expert but have got alot of horses to work without rodeos. I guess I’m frustrated by folks in my area that won’t do anything but wait for a miracle and to some extent I see that happening here. My advice seems to be dismissed although it will and does work without any added stress on person or animal. I guess my time will be better spent working my animals than trying to help other folks try to understand that you can’t drive horses with a book in your hand. Good Luck WV Drafty you have a nice team and I hope they get worked out for you. I just feel like I’m wasting my time here.

Aw come on Dennis, you’ve got one of the most consistent, practiced, and experienced voices on here.

What’s it matter if nobody follows any of our advice?

Carl

WV Drafty, If I where there I would have plenty. I think you have a ton of suggestions already. Sometimes the best posts in these threads are when someone can collect some of the valuable ideas from several, (like what plowboy did). But what you need to do now is read these with a comb. Make a couple notes, and ask us questions. Start to form your own opinion of what you are reading. Don’t be afraid to share it. Jason asked about the bit at the top of the thread. That is a good question. Questions I would ask are, How are their ground manors in general? Everything from leading to trimming hooves to standing for a harness. How often can you work them? Don’t feel bad if it is every weekend. There are many of us in that boat. we would all like to hook every day and it is great for horses and mules, but it is not the only way. Is there any work in harness that they do calmly? How are they while you hook them to a tongue?

My questions aside I would really like to know what you think. There is a ton of good advice above, don’t let it bury you. Enjoy the sun shine today.