DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Draft Animal Power › Other Working Animals › goat wethers in harness
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Rick H..
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- April 12, 2009 at 4:13 pm #40453
Rick H.
ParticipantLooking for info., book form, magazine, what ever, about training goat wethers for light draft work. I have had goats for two years now, I don’t have a lot of work to be done, thought about a pony, but maybe a team of goats would do the job and be a little different. I have had work horses and used them for commercial produce growing and hay making. I have a little bit of oxen experience. How do goats compare, training wise to other draft animals? I mean methods wise. Any ideas much appreciated. Thanks.
April 12, 2009 at 4:24 pm #51701Carl Russell
ModeratorTry this link
http://nationalsaanenbreeders.com/workingwethers.htmlAnd
http://www.hoeggergoatsupply.comThis page in particular
http://hoeggergoatsupply.com/xcart/home.php?cat=21
Carl
April 12, 2009 at 5:55 pm #51706sanhestar
ParticipantHello,
also check
mailinglist on yahoo
Harness goats
You can find one article on training harness goats per issue in the packgoat magazine “Goat Tracks” (3 issues per year – a lot of info on training also in the back issues)
http://www.goattracksmagazine.com
good information on goats in general, training, behaviour
“The Mysterious Goat” by Dr. C. Naacktgeboren
http://www.bbpress.nl/livestock/mysterious_goat.shtml
google for American Harness Goat Society, they have a small manual on training goats to harness
In terms of training:
the most important work is to properly socialise them to humans (or buy well socialised goats). These type of goats accepts any challenge with ease, you won’t find spookiness towards equipment, like in horses.
One example: when I put a saddle on my packgoat prospects this is a thing of 5 minutes. One look, a bit awkward moving – a mental “shrugging” and that’s it.
Training goats to pull is very similar to teaching them to pack.
Training goats to be driven though can be a challenge because they are really fast in their reactions and will have themselves (and you) tangled in the lines in no time. So you should have helpers, patience and time for this kind of task.
But “simple” pulling with you walking beside them is an quite easy task – given that they are trusting you.
April 13, 2009 at 8:35 pm #51702bivol
Participantdoes anyone know how much can two big wethers pull in a wagon on a level ground?
April 14, 2009 at 4:38 am #51707ParticipantHi,
they can pull up to twice their weight.
April 14, 2009 at 12:26 pm #51712ParticipantThank you to those that have replied. It seems that there isn’t a lot of info in print about goats as a serious draft animal. The packing end looks like it is growing and makes sense for hiking rough and remote areas on foot. I realize that the size of a goat is an obvious drawback to doing much farm work. With more people showing an interest again in small farm and homesteading type way of life, but with often times a very limited land base, that for some will probably always be that way, smaller size livestock and draft suitable animals will make sense. The animal power equivilent to the big lawn mower type garden tractor. I think having livestock/ draft animals that fit the scale of operation is important. Just because you’re on a small plot of ground doesn’t mean you give up trying to manage it in a sustainable way. To many animals for the pasture isn’t a good long term idea. To much manure for your gardens, small hay fields,etc., long term isn’t good either. Maybe the goat is more usable than we realize, the need to do it just hasn’t been there so far. Harness vs. yoke, I wonder about that too. With some practice, yokes could be home made with your own wood, closing the loop even more. Another,”I wonder”, sheep wethers as draft animals. Oxen style using yokes. They’d need to be kept shorn more often, at least around the neck, unless a head yoke was used. As you all can see, a very twisted mind at work here. No end to the frustration my wife puts up with. Any other thoughts along these lines? I’d like to hear them. Someone should write a workbook on the small draft animal. Take care all.
April 14, 2009 at 2:00 pm #51708ParticipantHello Rick,
I don’t think that yokes would work with goats. Their neck/shoulder structure is more similar to horses than to oxen.
Collar or harness is what’s been used – check the foto section on the harnessgoats.co.uk website – lots of interesting ideas there.
April 14, 2009 at 9:52 pm #51703Participanthi!
well, use of goats around a small farm, as i see it, wouldn’t include plowing(obviously, they’re too small), but would include hauling firewood in a small wagon, hauling manure on the field and hay to the barn. y’know, road work.
to my opinion, two wethers should do on even ground, with more goats added if need be.
oh yeah, while reading in the net, while reading a text i stumbled on a note that there is a plowing harness for goats.
seeing my face at the moment must have been funny! anyway, i found that goats (pair of wether) should be able to pull a small, i guess donkey-sized, cultivator, the thing that scratches.and if we’re talking goat power as a serious alternative, we’re probably talking about an amount of land where the plot can be cultivated by hand. not that the scratcher wouldn’t be helpful.
how many working goats should one keep? as blunt as it may first appear, i’d like to know how many harness goats can someone keep and spend less food than keeping, say, a donkey or two.it would be interesting to compare food consumption of a couple of working goats to a donkey, and their power outputs!
but even if they would be equal, i’d still pick goats, because:
1)if you are keeping working wethers, it’s likely you keep other goats, or have a mini goat diary. so the working goats can be cheaper to obtain and to replace.
2. they mature faster. a goat can be fully mature by a year. a donkey takes a few years to be able to do hard work.
3. they are, i think, more menagable than a donkey. from what i’ve red about donkeys, you can’t force them to do something, you must ask them.
4. if you do something wrong in training, you can always sell or consume the wether easier than a donkey. it’s more difficult to sell a ruined donkey
5. they are better to eat than a donkey. at least to me.but, there is one thing which a donkey can do: guarding. a donkey can guard other small livestock on pasture. but than again, i’d rather get a livestock guardian dog, if i had a farm. they can not only guard my livestock on pasture, but also my farm at night. and they don’ eat THAT much.
now, power output:
1 weather- 180 pounds = can pull 360 pounds2 weathers (standard hitch) = can pull 720 pounds
4 weathers (heavy duty hitch) = can pull 1440 pounds
the pulling is meant for a wagon on an even ground.
2 w. can pull a decent load.which do you think is the best option to hitch them? i’d always, even 4, hitch abreast. 4 wg are still not very wide.
April 15, 2009 at 4:54 am #51709Participant@bivol 8058 wrote:
2. they mature faster. a goat can be fully mature by a year. a donkey takes a few years to be able to do hard work.
I’m sorry, but that’s wrong. A goat needs 4 years (sometimes 5) to mature and before being able to do hard work. Taking a one year old goat to work is simply cruel.
I would suggest reading “The Packgoat” from John Mionczynski, there’s a chapter about the economy of working goats vs. horses and oxen (required food intake vs. work “output”).
April 15, 2009 at 5:53 am #51704Participantoh, didn’t know that.
and i wouldn’t want to do anything cruel to an animal in my possession. thanks for the explanation. for an ox to mature in four years, is not surprising, given the size of it, but for wg to mature four years, that’s unexpected long. thanks for letting me know!April 15, 2009 at 7:46 am #51710ParticipantHello,
most people don’t know that goats will grow until 4/5 years of age because most of them are butchered way before that resp. does that are bred too early (first year) stop growing often after the first lambing (too much strain on the body) if not fed properly.
for comparison: I’m 1,75m tall, all wethers kept growing after that picture was taken. They were 3 years old then, except the white one (2 years, poorly raised when young but he cought up over time)
April 15, 2009 at 7:06 pm #51705Participanti didn’t know that!
did wonder why some goats were obviously so big. it makes sense now!
how big and heavy can a fully grown weather be?
is it over 200 pounds?
my uncle once had a ram who weighted over 220 pounds.April 15, 2009 at 7:18 pm #51711Participantdepends on breed and size (obviously).
The goats that are bred for packing can weigh up to 250 lbs.
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