DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Draft Animal Power › Training Working Animals › Training Horses and/or Mules › line pressure
- This topic has 9 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 6 months ago by LStone.
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- May 5, 2009 at 12:40 pm #40504jen judkinsParticipant
I have been behind on my reading, for obvious reasons, but Andre’s thread about the SFJ prompted me to dig it out of the pile and read it. The poem wasn’t all that bad, once you got past the pigs bones:rolleyes:
But I will definately say that Donn’s article was way more interesting. I have heard lots of different opinions from teamsters about what is appropriate line pressure or ‘contact’ and I have been somewhat perplexed by the variations in style. My own style comes from my riding training and since it focuses on relaxation in the horses body and mind, I use rein pressure as feedback and guidance…sometimes alot of pressure…but I always turn that pressure off once I have what I want in the way of gait and direction.
I also liked what Andre said in another thread about being a ‘post’. Let the horse decide where he feels the most comfortable or confident. Sounds simple, but the difference between a stationary hand and a pulling hand can be hard to decipher by the inexperienced. I thought some discussion on the topic would be interesting.
A mentor of mine once told me, when I asked how to handle a training issue, to ‘either firm up, or soften up’ and then in true mensa fashion walked away.
May 7, 2009 at 1:16 am #52124jen judkinsParticipantIf no one is interested in this topic…..please delete it Carl. I, for one, would like to get some feedback about this. But maybe I am alone in this….which is OK.
May 7, 2009 at 1:39 am #52120PlowboyParticipantJen, My guidline as as little as posible to gain the desired results. I would rather have a horse work well with the least or almost no pressure if possible. It is far more enjoyable for me this way especially when driving 6 or 8. I have driven other peoples teams that “lug” on you constantly and I dislike it. This comes from holding a “heavy” line and asking them to go. They get used to this and then “lug” on you all the time. I like them to respect the bit and stand when asked, respond to the bit as well as respond to it when they get excited or scared but once they are well broke to all equipment our horses need minimal guidance so the work is stress free for us and them.
May 7, 2009 at 3:14 am #52125AnonymousInactivefor me this is ”the topic”. this is where all the good days are. when your in in the zone, everything just falls into place. the horse stands, doesn’t bolt into load, all the right behavior cause the animals relax’d. get heavy handed, and it can quickly spiral out of control. other than hands on , how is it possible to learn? bob h.
May 7, 2009 at 12:04 pm #52118Gabe AyersKeymasterI don’t know any other way to learn – other than hands on Bob. We may talk and write about it but that feeling you are describing happened in the flesh not on the computer screen of magazine page or video.
It is a dance with animals, but like all touch dancing – one leads the other follows.
What do you think Jen?
May 8, 2009 at 2:48 pm #52126LStoneParticipantJen,
Good topic. I had a problem a while back with getting my team lines adjusted properly. I figured that would be a first step to proper line tension. With the help I received from this group I was able to figure some things out on my own and I am confident that I have worked that out and it feels much better to me. Although I am wondering if it is normal to have more and consistant line pressure while driving a ride as opposed to ground driving. I guess riding just easier to keep a constant adjustment on the lines to manage line pressure better.
When I ground drive I always seem to be walking up the heels of the horses and wonder if I should encourage them to go faster or slow myself down. I hope the answer is to encourage more speed because that is the approach I am using. I figure they have to at least go as fast as i am comfortable walking and the bit should do it’s job if they get going too fast. I find it hard to manage consistantly though. Sometimes they seem to get kind of bored and their intensity level drops off considerably and I can recognize and discourage that behavior when it occurs and I attribute that to their young age. Anyway I am interested in hearing more on this subject.
Thanks,
LStone
May 8, 2009 at 5:03 pm #52121J-LParticipantI come from a background of riding horses on this cow ranch. We ride a lot more than we drive. The feeling of a riding horse with a heavy mouth still bothers me. This might translate to my dislike of heavy mouthed driving horses.
I was always taught that to be make your horses light, you had to be only as hard on them as you needed to get the response you’re looking for. That’s a simple sounding thing to do, but much harder in practice.
Most of my driving is feeding cows for 6 or 7 months. This is normally by myself and the team has to be able to work on a slack line. No way around it. I want them to be able to handle slight pressure when I’m driving through tight places, but that’s about it.
The last team of Belgians I had were a really nice team, but they were older and had been driven on a tight line. One horse adjusted well to my routine, the other would absolutely lose his confidence when you didn’t have contact with his mouth. I was constantly having to reel him in and shut him down while feeding. He wore a buck back most of the time, and you couldn’t go without it. I tried for 3 years to get him to walk the feed ground. He never did get entirely used to it.
I did read Donn’s article also and he handles them much like my Dad did and how he taught me. That article made a lot of sense to me and I thought it was a really good one. Well done Donn.May 9, 2009 at 1:19 pm #52119Carl RussellModeratorI’m not sure that I can add anything to this discussion other than to reiterate that line pressure is the crux of this craft. It is what makes working with animals different than using machinery. I tend to use line pressure as an extension of my own physical intention. For me, driving horses is more than chauffeuring, directing them this way or that, it is a physical and intuitive activity that facilitates communication, allowing me to grow two huge 1700 lb muscles that I can direct as much by thought as I do my own fingers. When one of my horses is unconvinced about this, I just keep focusing on the work and utilizing as much subtle sensitivity as possible to reinforce for the horse that they are entirely capable of working within the narrow limits of power and precision that I require to complete the job successfully.
Carl
May 12, 2009 at 11:14 am #52122Does’ LeapParticipantI also really enjoyed Donn’s article. As a new teamster this topic has been on my mind a lot as well. I started driving with much more contact than I do now. We swiched to a liverpool bit from a snaffle as we felt our team “lugging” more and more as time went on, so we changed everything, the bit and the way we drove and I’m really happy with it. It is a real challenge to get it right though, and Pat Palmer gave me the post analogy and I think about it a lot. It is so much easier to practice when on the ground. I can say…I am going to walk this slowly now, and it is your job to adjust your pace to keep the line pressure off. That is so much harder when attatched to their pace on a wheeled vehicle.
Kristan
May 12, 2009 at 3:19 pm #52123Donn HewesKeymasterKristan, Great addition. That is one of the reasons I always encourage people to do some ground driving as they are learning. The teamster is responsible for choosing the speed. So obvious when we are walking. Donn
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