Dollar value of forwarding

good idea carl, a crew working together putting out wood, each cutting separately scaling and making their own wage by what they pile up (or how hard they work). sounds fair. some kind of community thing there, too that might be helpful. LIF up in unity is doing something along that line, all the wood goes in the same pile, and it seems to be working well. there is something about the crew working together that increases output. two men cut more than twice what one can. some math thing like that. we should explore this one a little more. mitch

Here is a link to the cost calculation worksheet I was referring to earlier. If you don’t have an accurate knowledge of your costs or in this case, your sub’s costs, you are asking for trouble. Unfortunately most loggers run by the seat of their pants with numbers in their head. Relying on experience and constant knowledge of your resources and markets that usually works, for some folks. More often than not loggers run on what they think the numbers are (or should be) and get their ass burned in the process. This comes from a past of moving a lot of volume from my former mechanical show, friends. I had a really good handle on what my costs were (or thought I did), but often would go back with a sharp pencil and discover the ugly truth. This spreadsheet is invaluable for that.

I am currently working on a version that can integrate a horse component. That should be ready to go earlier rather than later.

To make this spreadsheet work, you need to know the operator prevailing wage for the area and the type and vintage of machine they are dealing with, as well as fuel costs, etc. There is a big difference if they are running an old Iron Mule vs. a brand new TimberJack, both in efficiency, payload, and cost.

Take it for what it is worth. My suggestion would be to pre-bunch your entire job trailside, if you could stand financially, first. With volume comes economy of scale, and when it comes to equipment operational costs, that is what makes all of the difference.

My standard has usually been to pay hourly. That scenario is only put into play when I know the operator personally and have either dealt with them in the past, or know someone credible who has. If you can get enough trailside, you can go the volume route for payment. If you have minimal volume though, the chances are that you are going to lose your shorts in the deal. Mobilization costs decrease the greater volume you can spread those costs over.

If you are going to consistently be forwarding material, I would follow the example Simon and others have, get a horse-drawn forwarder. It is analogous to paying rent vs. purchase. The money you are spending on Joe the forwarder guy you could be spending acquiring an asset. This scenario only plays out if you are moving enough volume and have enough wood in front of you, however. Otherwise, it becomes a liability. When I ramp up post & pole operations in the not so distant future I will be going this route.

Forwarding is the only way to move enough volume of small wood to make it economically feasible, IMO, if you have significant turn distance involved.

Here is the link http://sites.google.com/site/draftanimalpoweredforestry/home/machinerate-xls

To increase volume per trip, to increase efficiency by hauling pre-cut (defects out) logs, and to reduce impact of dragging logs on the ground. The power hydraulic boom and grapple for handling material is also a big component of increased efficiency.

Carl

I spoke with Ben last night and he said that on the job this winter he could load, moved, and unload 1MBF of pine uphill 1000′ in about a half an hour. He figures his hourly rate for equipment and operator to be $80/hour, so in this instance it probably did cost about $40/MBF. This is in a 70 HP tractor with a Payeur forwarder wagon.

He also said he averaged about 2MBF per day cutting and bunching at $190/MBF = $380/day – $80(Forwarding 2MBF) = $300 / 2MBF = $150/MBF to cut and bunch.

Sounds about right,

Carl

Great stuff guys. This is what we have done many times by hiring the mechanized forwarder after bunching along side the old haul road. We divided the tract into units and each horse logging crew managed their own, cutting marked trees and color coding small ends at the landing to be hauled by the sawmill that purchased the wood. Worked out great, moved allot of wood and everyone made money, including the forwarder guy who rented his services at $500.00 per eight hour day. Stumpage and pro rated costs similar here.

If the wood were small enough or the horse drawn forwarder stout enough it could be done like Simon does and the investment in your own assets makes good sense.

Other story-

Just returned from ten days with Simon in the U.K. He is the real deal folks.

Our quest to find a good colt is complete and wouldn’t have been possible in such a thorough way with our native guide. Thanks Simon.

Attended the fetcu meeting, another bunch of real folks…. hard to give a speech that is being translated into three languages one sentence at a time. Showed the Chronicles DVD, the visual brings us all to the same language. Awesome event.

Off to the manure mines here and getting the spring work underway. Still plenty of logging to be done, but have to take care of the ground in a timely way.

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