Future draft powered farm sustainability.

DAPNET Forums Archive Forums Sustainable Living and Land use Sustainable Farming Future draft powered farm sustainability.

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  • #40624
    thousandhills
    Participant

    I was wondering what it would take and what the best plan of action would be for me to get in to sustainable farming with draft power. I am looking at trying to grow heirloom small grains if I could find some and have a draft powered grain mill. I am 23 almost 24 have 3 boys and a lovely wife and would love to allow my boys a more simple life and let them dream bigger or smaller than the american dream.
    Concerning farm experience I grew up close to my uncles conventional dairy farm which went under and than he did beef for a while and than he did beef and a city job and than he has a farm he is just now paid of and a job in the city and no animals. I did however get to work with his beef cattle some and his dairy. I also got to take care of some of our friends goats and horses on their vacation. Last year I had an acre garden, 4 goats 100 chickens, a sheep and a couple apple trees at my in laws. this year I am interning at a community garden/orchard while I am in theological school.

    So I am basically asking 2 questions one is it possible ( I am not wanting to make gobs and gobs of money) to have a sustainable farm not making me or my wife work outside of the farm. I am in Kansas city, MO and would like to stay close to this area.
    the second is how many aces would I need? how much equipment would I need and I have none at the moment. How much would this cost? Would I still be able to be sustainable with the loans for these things.

    p.s. I would also like to have beef and lamb sales.

    #52870
    firebrick43
    Participant

    I would say that loans/debt make your dream very difficult, makes any type of farming difficult.

    When a banker is breathing down your throat for a payment, I have seen the most decent man make rash decisions and sell out their values and beliefs

    I would recommend at least getting a team and some smaller equipment while one person maintains a job. Save some money at the same time. If you can develop a customer base and come close to breaking even at that point look at income and cash flow. If its there, then both start farming full time, but I have met very very few farmers that don’t at least have a part time job unless they get a subsidy check every month, even the amish typically practice a skill or trade in addition to their farm. Such as a welding shop or farrier service or wagon shop or shoe store/farm store.

    #52862
    Does’ Leap
    Participant

    TH:

    I worked for 9 years as a high school teacher while my wife worked full time on our goat dairy where we make cheese. During that time we built up our business and infrastructure (pasteurizer, cheese plant, aging cellar, dairy, barns, fences, etc.). I quit my job 2 years ago and things are going well. Here is my advice:

    1. Write a business plan and have as many farmers and business types read and critique it. This will help you get real numbers and information. There are plenty of models on the web. This is a great exercise and a prerequisite for any loan.
    2. Remember that grains are a commodity – basically an undifferentiated product in the consumer’s eye. That usually means that they are not willing to pay a whole lot more for grain that was raised sustainably with horses. You would be competing with mega farms that can produce grain at a fraction of what you could. Think about adding value (bread, granola, hot cereal mix, etc), or even another value added product that your costumers need and will pay top dollar for.
    3. Consider renting land. I love owning land but from a farming business sense, you are much better off renting, at least initially – especially if you are cropping and don’t have much fixed infrastructure. Check out Allan Nation (Stockman Grass Farmer) on this topic.
    4. Don’t be too debt averse. I was initially convinced that I would never take out a loan. We did pay cash most of the way from accumulated savings, but strategic, very conservative borrowing with a sure pay back plan has served us well in getting where we want to be.
    5. Start small, which might mean both of you working off farm initially (at least part time). We started milking 12 goats and demand has always exceeded our supply (we are now milking 50). This enabled us to build up a solid customer base and charge what we need to make a living.
    6. Ask a million questions. Swallow your pride and seek advice from others in the know. I have learned tons not only from farmers, but electricians, plumbers, welders, seamstresses (to name a few) and let’s not forget teamsters! Most are willing to share their knowledge generously.

    Good luck. It has been a long hard road for us, but has paid off a thousand fold in terms of quality of life.

    George

    #52867
    OldKat
    Participant

    Wow, George that was a fantastic reply to his question. That may be one of the top ten posts I have ever seen, on any board … about any subject. I am impressed.

    thousandhills; his answer may not have been exactly what you WANTED to hear, but I strongly suspect that it was you NEEDED to hear. He is offering some sound advice, I would take it to heart if I were in your shoes.

    The one thing that you do NOT want to do is go off on something half cocked. Take it from someone who jumped in over his head on a business venture without really being prepared … the stree that doing something when you are not fully ready for it is a killer.

    NOT saying you CAN’T do what you want to do, just follow sage advice and make sound planning decisions BEFORE you commit fully to it. If prayer fits into your belief system, do that too!

    #52860
    goodcompanion
    Participant

    I second everything that George already said.

    Particularly the part about value adding. We grow grain with drafts and also run a small brick-oven bakery. Thus we have support based on the quality of our baked goods even from people who are uninterested in the the farming side. Table-ready products are much easier to sell retail, and retail is the only way to go, in my opinion, for the small producer.

    The bakery accounts for 80% of our farm revenue at this point. I run the whole operation with my wife and two apprentices. We have no off-farm income currently. We’re in our third year of operation.

    I would be happy to share specific info on the requirements and costs of horsedrawn grain growing if thousandhills (or anyone else) would like.

    #52868
    thousandhills
    Participant

    so,

    I am thankful for all of your responses. All of which I have heard before from some farmers I know but it was very nice to get some confirmation. I am really interested in what you have to say good companion. I looked at your website and that is about exactly what I would like to do.
    I had one question though how are you able to legally sell your bread? Inspected and all that. Maybe vermont is lax on those laws Ikn?

    Well keep coming I want everyones ideas, advice and encouragement.

    Thanks,

    Thousand hills

    #52864
    near horse
    Participant

    I would be happy to share specific info on the requirements and costs of horsedrawn grain growing if thousandhills (or anyone else) would like.

    Erik,

    I would like to hear about your experience growing grain w/ horses.

    #52863
    bruha6
    Participant

    I also, would like to hear about your experience growing grain w/ horses.
    Bruce

    #52865
    Joshua Kingsley
    Participant

    Erik, would you be willing to share in a large scale to the board? I know that I would be intrested and would be intrested in growing some grains here in Pittsford for use on the farm. Thanks, Josh

    #52861
    goodcompanion
    Participant

    All right already. I will be very happy to go into detail on it. Certainly our operation is a work in progress still, we are entering our third year of operation, but lots to tell about.

    We have a state-inspected bakery with a brick oven. This gives us considerable legal latitude in converting our production to table-ready goods.

    I am not having such a great day today, little calf in a bad way, but will start a new thread soon. It is nice to have such interest.

    #52869
    thousandhills
    Participant

    cool thanks. Will be praying for your calf.

    #52866
    bivol
    Participant

    hi!

    thousandhills, you have a good idea there! i hope you’ll make it!

    there is actually very little to add to these fine replies, so i’ll say this:

    i heartly recommend a book called “The new complete book of self-sufficiency: a classical guide for realists and dreamers”, from John Seymoure.
    pretty good, all round book covering every aspect of life on a small self-sufficient farm, from keeping pigs to solar energy.

    Good luck!

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