DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Draft Animal Power › Animal Health › Livestock Husbandry › Heritage Poultry
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- July 3, 2009 at 1:09 am #40676Joshua KingsleyParticipant
I was wondering if anyone is or has raised heritage breed chickens or Heritage turkeys on their farms? I am starting to raise Chantecler chicks this year and have also gotten Midget White turkeys. Any input from those who have done poultry projects in the past would be appreciated.
thanks, JoshuaJuly 3, 2009 at 3:08 am #53117Carl RussellModeratorWe’ve done midget whites. Ended up with a breeding pair, then the sow walked over her fence in the deep snow and flushed the turkeys out of the green house, and the coyotes got ’em. They are interesting animals, quite different than the big double breasted meat birds. Lisa’s hatching out some other Naragansetts this summer, and we have several birds of black and dry grass varieties.
We are working to get breeding pairs of all of the livestock we raise here, so that we don’t have to buy in every year. Trying our own heavy meat chicken crosses, not sure how that will work out, it may end up that we just raise turkeys for meat production, and keep the chickens for eggs.
Carl
July 3, 2009 at 3:57 pm #53132OldKatParticipantAs a teenager I raised some bronze turkeys. I forget the exact breed, maybe they were just called “bronze”. Anyway, they were a little smaller than the commercial white strains. That was good thing, because by that time it was just my mom, dad and me at home. The smaller birds were good for a couple of meals for the three of us.
When I was a little older and teaching high school agriculture I had a kid order 25 white poults for the county fair. After he had paid for them his family up and moved to another state. I couldn’t find anyone else to take the poults so my wife and I raised them.
At first we were slaughtering one or two at a time as they started growing. That made for some smaller birds, which was fine. By the time we lost one or two and slaughtered some more we had about 14, maybe 15 that reached full maturity. I tried to slaughter all of them by myself and all at the same time. That was the longest day of my life. We were at an FFA function at the high school that I had attended and it had a full processing room, so I had taken the birds over there to process. Luckily, there were about 3 or 4 farm girls with us that day and after they finished their activites they stopped by, rolled up their sleeves and went to work helping me. Wonder why those particular kids were among my most favorite students?
Anyway, we ended up with way more turkey than we could ever use. We gave one to just about every neighbor or friend that would take one and still had at least 6 or so in the freezer. You know there is only so many ways you can prepare turkey. I think it took 3 or 4 years for either of us to want to eat turkey after that.
So my thinking is yes, go with the smaller heritage type breeds. I do have a friend that is still an ag teacher and last fall I noticed that he was raising some Bourbons. I never asked how they did on the table and never got my hands on them to see how finished they were, but they sure were pretty birds.
July 5, 2009 at 3:11 am #53129Joshua KingsleyParticipantCarl,
I was looking into Red Broilers for meat as they go broody, can reproduce unlike the Cornish Rock cross broilers. The only thing that I have found out about the red broilers though they take a little longer to get to roaster weight than the cross broilers. Though that is that they are also a fair layer that can put eggs on the table for a while before or after you get your chicks for the year. another option would be to get white cornish pullets and cross them with a white rock rooster. then you would get the hybred vigor and the fast growth while having the chicks produced on farm.As for turkeys I have just gotten a call from an aquaintience that has Beltsville Whites which mature out a little larger than the White Midgets. It is looking like they may find their way onto the farm as well… I guess I may be a glutton for punishment. Then again it makes farming fun to see the next generation.
Josh
July 5, 2009 at 5:35 pm #53120dominiquer60ModeratorJoshua,
The Red Broiler is a nice alternative to the cornish cross, they do lay, not very well, but some and they produce a more modern meaty carcass than most heritage breed. The older hens make great meaty flavorful soup hens. They have a lot of New Hampshire genetics in them but are not a heritage breed if that is what you are really looking for.
I used to raise Dominiques, the oldest American breed that can be classified as heritage, heirloom or an antique breed by all accounts. Many lines have a good deal of Barred Plymouth Rock infused into them, but since rocks have been around since 1874, they are a heritage breed too. I really like the Dominique, they are thrifty birds that can survive on little grain (if pastured or free range), produce a good amount of eggs (if you can find them) and make great stew hens.
The thing to keep in mind about heritage poultry is that you have to recalibrate your standards of what a good meat carcass is. I don’t want to use the word never, but I can’t picture a heritage breed coming close to the carcass of a cornish cross as far as amount of meat. However I also can’t imagine a cornish cross ever having the firm texture and excellent flavor that a heritage bird has the potential to produce.
When the time is right I plan on establishing a Dominique flock for egg and breeding purposes. I will sell some hatching eggs and young stock and raise breeding culls for meat and eggs. I have an idea of a heritage hybrid that will be unique to our farm, an accidental crossing in my childhood flock inspired this. It will be tough keeping 2 lines to make a hybrid, but I see this flock as a hobby that pays for itself, I don’t plan on making a profit but I am open to the Dom’s making a little extra cash too.
I believe that when marketing hertiage breed poultry meat, we need to stress the quality of the meat and not the quantity. A heritage carcass is going to be what we may consider scrawny buy modern standards, but what someone in the 1930’s and 1940’s may consider prime. I plan on marketing mine as yesteryear chicken or the chicken that grandma would have served for Sunday dinner. Another problem is that the meat is perceived as tough. We have to remember that free running birds don’t produce mushy meat. Heritage birds need to be cooked carefully, they take less time to cook because they have less water content. I refer to these types of birds as having texture rather than calling them tough. If the bird is a stew bird it takes all day to cook it tender, but well worth it for some of the best soup or chicken and biscuits. Customer education is key when selling something that a grocery store would never carry anymore.
I wish you luck with your search for the right heritage breed(s).
Erika
July 5, 2009 at 9:01 pm #53128Joshua KingsleyParticipantThanks Erica, I was thinking of the red broiler not so much as a heritage breed but one that could be raised sustainably. The turkeys and chickens that I am currently raising are for base flocks and to put eggs and meat on our table. Then I would also like to sell a few turkey poults in the spring if the hens cooperate. With the chanteclers I will be able to take the culls and put them on the table not quite as fast as with the cross broilers but then again they won’t have the helth problems. Good luck with your mission with the doms.
JoshuaJuly 6, 2009 at 1:40 am #53118goodcompanionParticipantWe have toulouse geese here. Such easy keepers, they get big and fat on nothing but grass and weeds. My goose bred just fine and brought off seven goslings the first time. A little grain for the first few weeks of life for the goslings, and some to carry the breeding pair through the winter, otherwise they take charge of their own affairs and get fat on just pasture. I have never raised turkeys so I can’t compare, but I am so fond of raising geese that I have taken on the charge of convincing customers to try a goose for thanksgiving or christmas instead of a turkey.
Food for thought, perhaps. Good luck!
July 7, 2009 at 9:19 pm #53121dominiquer60ModeratorJoshua,
I have a 3yo Red Broiler hen that is an educational demo/pet. I am personally amazed that she is still alive given her massiveness. She is not quite the chunk that a 2 year old cornishX broiler hen can be, but she has the grace of pregnant woman at the end of her third trimester and her size is impressive. My guess is that the red broiler is a hybrid of sorts and it would be hard to duplicate its vigorous growth keeping some on to breed. I am not sure if this is your intention or not. I think that they make a great meat bird and if you do any breeding involving the red broiler to its self or another breed I would be very interested to hear what your results are. I would also like to hear about your Chantecleas, how well they breed and what their carcass is like. I do know a couple folks that raise heritage breed turkeys and their big advice is to start them much earlier than a commercial hybrid for Thanksgiving. I wish you success.Erika
July 13, 2009 at 3:28 pm #53119Lane LinnenkohlParticipantWe’re raising free range Dark Cornish this year for meat birds. Our first batch will be processed at the end of this month. I’ll try to remember to report how they turn out.
July 14, 2009 at 2:48 am #53135carterParticipantThis is a very interesting discussion. I hope you do remember to report, drybranchfarm, it would be good to know what you think of them.
Goodcompanion, do you have any experience of eating older, 3-4 yrs geese? I have a few too many really, have heard they have to be under a year old to eat. Could they be cooked anyway to get them tender?
Good luck with your dominique project, Erika.January 18, 2010 at 6:35 am #53122dominiquer60ModeratorI ate the 4 year old Red Broiler hen, I cooked her all day long in a crock pot and later added veggies and then added some dumplings. I brought her to farmer potluck and she got rave revues and no one would have thought the bird was an old hen. I will let you know how the 9 year old Rhode Island Red/ Brahma cross cooks up. I don’t know about cooking older water fowl, but with chicken, cook the bird all day long until the meat falls off the bones, and I know that you can even cook it further until the bones are soft enough to eat.
Good Luck and let us know how the old geese turnout.January 20, 2010 at 5:17 pm #53123dominiquer60ModeratorBachelorFarmer,
I suspect that your “cowlick” bird has what is called the “frizzle” gene, because these birds look like they are having a “bad frizzy hair day”. This gene can occur in any breed, and is prized and encouraged by some poultry fanciers. This very well could have been the extra chick that they sent you. Hatcheries like Murray McMurray and others will throw in an odd ball as a thank you gift to use up some of the breeds that over hatched. Depending on the breed it could be a fine production animal, or it could earn top dollar as an oddity if you have a small animal auction around you to take it to. Although I am not really into poultry breeds that have little to no egg or meat value, I do enjoy the diversity that our feathered friends display.Where did you find such interesting crosses and do you have the ability to post a picture of one? Do they have common names like “grey broilers” or are they advertised as these specific crosses. I like keeping purebreds, but I also enjoy seeing how the cross-breds compare in meat and egg quality, as well as feather pattern.
Thanks in advance for any info on these birds you might have,
Erika
March 7, 2010 at 4:50 am #53130Joshua KingsleyParticipantI got some of the Chantecler roosters culled out and put on to the dinner table last weekend. They are still tender as boneless brests for some recipies that Jess has. The meat has great texture and flavor, not as watery as the commerical store bought meats. The carcass was not as “finished” as some breeds though the cockrels had fat on them so they were not real thin. These birds were about 8 months of age at processing.
As far as the hens go I had my first eggs when the days were short and the temps were below Zero. They do go broody and they seem like a nice hen to deal with. I do prefer the partridge variety over the buff but that is mostly my own liking.
Just thought I would give an up date.
JoshuaNovember 19, 2010 at 6:09 pm #53136Andy CarsonModeratorI have been looking into chicken breeds and thinking of next year… I like New Hampshires and have been thinking about if it is a good idea to keep a New Hamp rooster, or use a Cornish rooster. The whole concept of crossbreeding and hybrid vigor makes alot of sense to me, but if the difference in growth rate or meat quality is minimal, I would be tempted to keep them pure. Does anyone have any thoughts to share?
November 21, 2010 at 12:07 pm #53124dominiquer60ModeratorThe difficulty with hybrid vigor is that you have to either have a good reliable source of pure stock, or keep two separate lines yourself. The New Hampshire is a great bird on its own, I think if you crossed it with a Cornish the meat potential could be greater. A word of warning about the Cornish, they actually grow rather slowly, and are not the most vigorous breeders. Special strains are used for commercial breeding flocks and the modern white Cornish cross hybrid is really a 4 way hybrid, thus the extreme growth rates and high percentage of white meat. I think your cross idea is certainly worth a try, but be aware that any non commercial Cornish that you can get your hands on may not result in such extreme vigor.
Erika
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