DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Draft Animal Powered Forestry International › General Discussions › info sheet for costumers
- This topic has 12 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 11 months ago by
mitchmaine.
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- December 10, 2009 at 2:33 pm #41160
TaylorJohnson
ParticipantI am putting together an info sheet for my costumers. It will include illustrations along with measurements of what a cord is , a 1000′ is , an eight foot log along with diameter measurement and how many feet are in it, same with other random length logs. They will have to sign this a long with the contract , I want them to know and to get there minds involved with this process. Most people are so far removed that they just don’t have any idea and worse are the people that have a little bit of an idea. They will also get a price sheet from a number of mills in the are with there grading system and there numbers and I will encourage them to call the mills and talk to them, I will help them but they will have to be involved in this process . This will make for a comfortable costumer and one that will understand what we as loggers and marketers of logs have to do in are jobs. I will if at all possible get them to market there own wood with guidance .
What do you all think of this ? Taylor JohnsonDecember 11, 2009 at 5:15 am #55968lancek
ParticipantHey Taylor,
I think you have a good idea there but it may be a hard road to hoe! Its been my experience that trying to train the public on how to market timber can be a difficult task, most land owners or at least the ones I have dealt with do not want to make that extra effort! But I could be wrong [ My wife trys to remind me of that all the time] and the folks up there may be more interested than what they are here. So give it a try and see and let us know what your findings are this may be very beneficial in the end LanckDecember 11, 2009 at 5:42 am #55963ParticipantI sure plan on helping guide them but I think it is important to get them involved in the proses. They will not be experts by any means but they will at least know what a cord of wood is and about how many cords will be on a truck. For most land owners to see a twenty five cord pile on there own property ,,, well it starts to look like a mountain of wood. I just want them to have an understanding even if it is not perfect of what is going on.
I think most of them would like to know more but get frustrated with the hole process . This way when a mill says ” ya we want some 10′ white oak , we need it ” and three days latter when it is ready to haul they say well now we need 8’s and 12’s well the land owner will be upset with the mill and not me. As we all know there are a lot of things like this that happen all the time and more often than not the land owner is in the dark and confused.
One thing I would like them to know is that a contract with a mill is not worth the paper it is written on most of the time, not that you cant work with them but it is a constantly changing game. If you are going to work with a land owner in a long term sense than it is good to educate them as best you can . Taylor JohnsonDecember 11, 2009 at 5:48 am #55964ParticipantIn a sense it could help protect the logger as well . If a land owner is asked to sing something then they are more likely to pay attention to what there putting there name on then at the end of a sale they can not say they did not understand or they were mis informed the info is there in black and white with illustrations and at the bottom of the page is there X . Taylor Johnson
December 11, 2009 at 6:19 am #55969blue80
ParticipantTaylor:
I don’t think you can ever go wrong educating the consumer. This process establishes trust, and usually differentiates you from competition, increasing your marketability.
Hypothetically, playing as one of your prospective owners, I may not want to market my own lumber, deal with an old boys network of buyers, millers and truckers who don’t want all kinds of landowners “bugging” them. I may just want to feel comfortable trusting you as an expert.
But I also may really appreciate the option of you being willing to “get” me to market my own timber, as laying out plausible options for a consumer to pursue also establishes trust. The consumer picks the option they want, its put in writing, work commences. And trust in a working relationship is great to have when there are problems/questions/issues in the future.
However possibly, when I have tried to educate people in the past, they glass over and are disinterested. Some people don’t want to learn or be involved, just want the service performed. And then it is your option to select them as a client or not, knowing that not every job is a good job.I think it has a lot to do with how you want to run your own business model.
Wish you the best,
Kevin
December 11, 2009 at 9:52 am #55960Carl Russell
Moderatorblue80;13317 wrote:… when I have tried to educate people in the past, they glass over and are disinterested. Some people don’t want to learn or be involved, just want the service performed. And then it is your option to select them as a client or not, knowing that not every job is a good job.I think it has a lot to do with how you want to run your own business model.
…
This is a great point. When I see the eyes glaze over, I move on. I like to work with enthusiastic informed clients. I don’t like to work for people I have to hold their hand constantly.
Knowledgeable landowners become effective stewards. If they don’t want to do the work themselves then they will learn to count on you. And any work they will do themselves is work you don’t have to do.
My other comment is that you try to educate them about the costs associated with your services. It is one thing for them to know what a log is, or a cord, but they also need to understand why you need to make a living doing what you do.
Good luck, Carl
December 11, 2009 at 12:13 pm #55970mitchmaine
Participantif your going to ask your landowner to market their own wood, they are providing a service to you. less work and headache for you and a liability shift as well. now you are just cutting and yarding wood for them and not the mill. if you take less money, like you should, that might be a pretty good incentive all by itself.
December 11, 2009 at 2:37 pm #55965ParticipantLoggers as a rule take more risk than they should have to in the first place . And with what blue80 said it is to educate but also to establish trust. I turn down a lot of costumers because I see that they will be a problem down the line . Carl I know that look your talking about ( the glazed over one ) and this would help weed people like that out and it might turn a few around. Once a land owner looks thing over and decides that he would just rather me handle it then no problem I will do that but it will not be for free. Time is money and it takes time to set on the phone and to stand on the landing with log buyers. If they are informed or I have tried to inform them the best I can they will be more comfortable with the decisions I make with were to go with the wood and why.
And I do think it is very important to teach the land owner about what we do and why we have to be paid what we are getting for are services. And if a land owner decides that they want to market there own wood then that is great but that is a decision that they have made and not a service to me . What I will have been paid for at this point is putting it on the landing a service provided to them.
Loggers have one of the oddest business models I have seen, they take more risk with less chance of return than most contractors in other industries would think of doing. If we as horse loggers follow the same plan then will be subject to the same cycles as they are. Loggers that buy stumpage are basically prospectors and are at high risk all the time . Weather , markets , injury, break downs, worthless contracts from mills , competing with the same mills that buy are wood,……. it goes on and on. When my Dad , Brother , and I all worked together we put out more log timber than any other outfit in WI , MI, and MN not pulp logs. We had any were from 9 to twelve 3 to 4 man crews working all the time. We did this for a lot of years and let me tell you I got a belly full of that game . We were prospectors betting on the markets . We bought land and all so that was prospect , the logs are always a gamble . What I do now is more service oriented and less prospective and my plan is to keep moving it in that direction . I don’t want to gamble my business or my clients property , I want us both to make sound decisions on what is before us knowing it could change. I don’t think it is right that the logger is expected to take all the risk, service work is safer and well informed land owner is happier . Taylor JohnsonDecember 11, 2009 at 8:37 pm #55971Participanthey taylor, if we agree that logs and pulp have a fixed value at any one time, and the contractor takes his share, and the trucker takes his share, then the chopper selling roadside gets the last check.then it belongs to him and the landowner. the only way to make more money is to cut more wood or pay less stumpage. educating the landowner about the business is a good thing. involving him especially if he doesn’t do it as well as you is asking for trouble. paying him less stumpage for doing a better job of cutting his woodlot is one method. and getting further up the checkline is also a good idea. if it’s your contract, you get the check first. at least you know how much your paying for trucking. people have been cutting wood for a long time and have been compaining about payment just as long. maybe you’re onto something. good luck
December 12, 2009 at 4:33 pm #55961Scott G
ParticipantTaylor,
I have numerous scale/cheat sheets that compare all of the standards of measure. Let me do some digging around next week and I’ll send you something.BTW, enjoyed your star appearance with Tim on RH RFD-TV last night! You’re a born star!
Take care,
ScottDecember 12, 2009 at 10:29 pm #55966ParticipantThanks Scott ,
I don’t get that channel so I did not watch it . I was so sick when they filmed that to tell you the truth I don’t remember much of it , like a lot of last summer it was a blur. I was having cold sweats that day I do remember that . AT that point I had been sick a long time and did not know it, was pretty much running on instincts there. May be some one will have recorded it or something and will get to see it .
Scott I would appreciate any info that you could send me so thanks in advance . Hey that town that my friend is moving to out in CO is called Greeley ,,, at least I think it is . Taylor JohnsonDecember 13, 2009 at 2:33 pm #55962ParticipantWell Taylor if that was shot when you were on death’s doorstep you must be awesome when you’re a 100% TV material for sure. As a matter of fact I think you would have a run at starting/hosting a new Saturday morning program titled “This Old Log”! Might give Tim C. a run for his money…:D
Greeley is about 1 1/2 hours southeast of where I’m at.
December 13, 2009 at 3:12 pm #55967ParticipantLOL Scott that is funny . Now you got me really wanting to see it. It is real hard to describe how I felt then this limes is something else. It is like you are half a sleep or drunk , you just plain old feel week and tired. It came back on me and I had to go on medication again so I have been off the meds for about 2 weeks now so we will see how it goes. Some prayers would be very much appreciated .
Scott my wifes best friend is moving there in a couple of weeks, they play fiddle together and have for years. I will be coming out there sometime to visit her I am sure and when I do I would like to come and see you to. They all want me to move out there , her and my wife are like sisters more than friends. I have never been to CO so I look forward to the visit. Taylor Johnson - AuthorPosts
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