DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Sustainable Living and Land use › Sustainable Energy › Gasification powered pickup?
- This topic has 9 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 14 years ago by
jac.
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- April 28, 2010 at 1:15 am #41612
near horse
ParticipantDid anyone happen to see that small story last week on RFD (I can’t recall the program right off hand) that interviewed a guy somewhere in the south US – Alabama maybe – that had rebuilt his pickup to run on “anything” combustible – wood for example. My understanding is essentially that the motor is running on hydrogen gas and some carbon monoxide – the end products of “gasification” or pyrolysis. Burning wood or whatever in a low oxygen environment results in H2 and CO instead of H2O and CO2. Apparently, he used information and designs from the German military in WW2 who developed it when their petroleum supplies were cut off.
Anyway, there were a few areas I would like to have heard more about – what are the waste products? How do you heat the fuel up to the combustion temps initially? ….
April 28, 2010 at 3:11 am #59655lancek
ParticipantHey near horse there is a lot of videos on utube that explain in detail about the prodgect I am currently trying to build a gasification system to run my saw mill and dry kilns
November 11, 2010 at 5:41 pm #59653mstacy
ParticipantGeoff,
I’ve got a couple books on gasification. As you mentioned a lot of work was done on this in Germany during WW2. You should be able to find oodles of information online. Try searching “downdraft gasifier”. http://taylor.ifas.ufl.edu/documents/Handbook_of_Biomass_Downdraft_Gasifier_Engine_Systems.pdf is one document that popped up.
There are up, down and crossdraft systems. Each type behaves differently in terms of efficieny, gas quality, and responsiveness.
Almost any wood stove is working as a gasifier when you pinch down the air inlets. If you see thick white smoke coming out of the chimney that’s a pretty good indication that you’re dumping pyrolysis products (unburned fuel) into the atmosphere. If you plumb that to a burner (or engine), mix with air and provide an ignition source you’re in business.
Regards,
Matt
November 14, 2010 at 9:43 pm #59648goodcompanion
ParticipantYes, the technology is not so revolutionary, it’s been around for a while. The Russians still use these vehicles, I think, called “kolhoz,” in Siberia where crappy wood abounds but it’s far from the oil supply lines. I have never seen one or even a picture of one but I think they are quite big and heavy, and possibly have tracks.
My friend, Bruce Teakle, built a wood gasification car in Australia and drove it from Brisbane to Canberra to make a political statement, around 1990. I don’t know what happened to it afterward. He mentioned having problems with tar deposits jamming the carburetor and making throttle changes problematic. Still, it was over 1000 miles on roadside wood, at a top speed of around 45 mph if I remember right. Wife and toddler went along with the trip, I think.
November 14, 2010 at 10:58 pm #59649Howie
Participant:)If you are using wood for heat you should think about a gasification furnace.
They use half as much wood and you don’t have to clean the chimney.:)November 15, 2010 at 12:54 am #59650ParticipantThe process of “gasification” (or pyrrolysis) is the process by which one generates the charcoal used in biochar. Interesting that we might be able to use wood for E and the reside for increasing soil fertility!!
Now – where’s the catch?! There’s got to be some serious negative that’s missing here.
November 15, 2010 at 2:31 am #59654ParticipantGeoff,
There is no catch. But there is no free lunch either. Approximately half the energy content in a stick of firewood is in the volatiles and the other half is in the solid carbon.
Whether you “pyrolize” or burn the wood the end results are not that different. As the wood is heated the volatiles are driven off and the carbon is left behind. Both components will burn provided there is enough oxygen and a high enough temperature to support combustion. You’ve seen this everytime you sat in front of a campfire. The charcoal is what’s left after the volatiles have been driven off.
Howie alluded to the efficiency of gasification stoves … and compared to a conventional wood stove … and the way we use them he’s right. Most wood stoves spew pyrolysis products (unburned fuel) up the stack when we pinch down the air flow to keep the fire going all night. A gasification stove is designed to ensure that the pyrolysis products are fully combusted rather than wasted (adequate secondary air and high enough temp to support combustion).
If you burn the volatiles and keep the charcoal you’ve recovered approximately half the energy content … and kept a big lump of carbon to use however you see fit. You have to decide. Would you rather burn that charcoal (heat your house, water, etc) or keep it? It’s akin to having your cake and eating it too.
Regards,
Matt
November 16, 2010 at 7:51 am #59656jac
ParticipantMatt I have been reading this gasification post and last night I was on the Elmira cookstove site. They have an antique type stove that I really liked… anyway the one next to the one i liked had an optional extra gas burner. Could this be fired up with the unburnt gasses from the stove.. or is it not that simple ???..
JohnNovember 24, 2010 at 8:05 pm #59651Participant@mstacy 22055 wrote:
Geoff,
If you burn the volatiles and keep the charcoal you’ve recovered approximately half the energy content … and kept a big lump of carbon to use however you see fit. You have to decide. Would you rather burn that charcoal (heat your house, water, etc) or keep it? It’s akin to having your cake and eating it too.
Regards,
Matt
Hi Matt,
After thinking about this a bit, it still intrigues me because we’re talking about “efficiency” in two different ways. First, the conventional version of efficiency is getting the most out of the process we’re performing (in this case, combustion for heat) and I agree that getting “the most heat” from a given stick of wood is the most efficient use, IF heat is all you’re after.
But in our whole farm operation(s) we’re (I guess I mean me) trying to make the best use of the resources we have at hand and minimize outside inputs, wherever possible. So, in that situation, is it a better use of wood to get some heat, albeit using more wood overall to attain the same amount of needed heat, but also ending up with charcoal products that can be used to increase the fertility of our garden/farm whatever – thereby reducing the need for purchased inputs. Inputs we would have to outlay capital for if we “efficiently” combusted our wood.
Something to ponder and you’re obviously right. There is no free lunch but you can choose what you want to eat.:)
November 26, 2010 at 11:29 pm #59652bivol
Participantthe wood gas truck rocks!
i’ve been researching into the system for a while, and it’s awesome!
there are a few systems, Imbert downdraft gasifier is the best one.with a gasifier one can burn all kinds of wood and/or organic material. waste building site wood, windfall, anything.
now, i may be an enthusiast, but this system has its “drawbacks”: it needs time to start, about 10-30 minutes for the gasifier to start producing the gasses.
then, the engine is about 30-50% weaker than on gasoline, so it’s better on rather flat country. it is weaker because the mix of gasses is inert nitrogen about 50%, with flammable gasses: carbon monoxide, hydrogen, and methane making the rest 50%. and on top you need air. so even if that mixture of flammable gasses per se is stronger than gasoline, because only about 30% of the gasses that enter the cylinder actually ignite, the engine is weaker.not to mention that one has to prepare the fuel. and that wood’s a bulky fuel.
but, with fuel prices rising, it is becoming a viable option.
and besides, with all that waste wood around, one could have a good drive for little money.the waste products are ash.
here is a Swedish site, Swedes are the most experences concerning wood gas.
if you need other links, let me know!few vids:
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