Who gives a grain ration? How much?

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  • #41659
    goodcompanion
    Participant

    I’m just curious. I am one of those people who would never grain his horses unless they are obviously losing physical conditioning due to overwork. Since this has never happened I have never fed grain.

    One of my apprentices has his horses here this summer. He grains each horse 6 quarts of grain per day, working or not. This seems like a lot to me, but of course they are his horses not mine and since he pays for the grain it’s none of my concern really.

    But on a theoretical level, isn’t 4000 lbs of grain per horse per year (about 1 lb/pint, right?) quite a liability with an impact on the viability of keeping horses for work? That’s two whole acres around here (four for a team) if you were to grow it, 80 x $12 bags if you go out and buy it.

    I’d like to know what others’ practices are.

    #60116
    Marshall
    Participant

    I give mine not much more than a handful. If they are working I give them a little more. They think they are really getting something but it does not amount to that much.

    #60123
    Andy Carson
    Moderator

    Right now, mine gets about 12 pounds a day performance feed (low NSC, 12% protein, 10% fat). Over the winter, she was up to about 15 pounds a day with some added oil and supplemental alfalfa hay, but I worked her through the winter months. Some people say this is alot, but she works hard and isn’t getting fat in the least bit. The horse I had before her ate probably 1/3 of this and no alfalfa, but was always kinda slow and never put out the effort of the one I have now. In my limited experience, the most important thing is the quality of the hay and how much work they are doing.

    #60103
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    I feed 7-10 lbs of 12% complete feed with 7% fat. I find logging work to be hard enough that I like to keep the energy and condition up. When they are on grass, they get a lot less. Also if they are idle for more than a week, I will just feed a 1-3 lbs/day.

    But I agree about the impact. It is just one of those things. I have worked them without feeding grain, and have found it to be beneficial.

    Carl

    #60108
    goodcompanion
    Participant

    Putting it all in perspective, thanks for the responses.

    All I can say is, if your beasts are working hard enough to really need it then my hat is off to you. I’ve never really reached that point of sustained labor, mostly because of life getting in the way, but hope to some day.

    But wow. Two tons of grain per animal per year makes a big dent in the landscape. Someone, somewhere, has to grow that grain, probably someone driving a tractor. I have a real appreciation of how much effort it takes to grow grain using animal power. If you worked your horses hard and grew all your own feed, how much of your year would be spent growing grain and haying strictly on behalf of your horses? I seem to remember Lynn Miller suggesting 25 % (of land use, and therefore probably time as well) but this seems like an ideal number you could probably only achieve if everything worked perfectly. I guess I’ve never seen anyone actually operating a farm on such principles and probably am not likely to.

    #60105
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    It’s definitely a luxury.

    Carl

    #60124
    Andy Carson
    Moderator

    I don’t know if I can really defend the economy of my feeding practices, but I think it might have evolved from two factors. First, I only have one draft horse so the cost of the increased feed is not as painful as it could be. Secondly, only having one biases me towards making sure she is as strong a fit as she can be so I can squeeze the maximum power out of a single. Maybe it also makes me feel like I am working an athlete and helps me to expect an athletic performance. You are definitely right though, Erik, this is probably not a pathway to self sufficiency. I’m not sure that it’s truly practical now, but am pretty sure it wouldn’t be practical if there weren’t huge tractor farms churning out great gobs of pretty cheap grain. I like to think that I’m going to trade small amounts of carefully made crops suitable for humans for larger amounts of not very carefully made crops suitable for animals. I think there is some truth this this…

    #60104
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    I did some rough calculation based on how I vary the rations, and came up with less than a ton per animal per year.

    As I said when they are on grass, they get virtually none, or just a pound or so when I bring them in. I have found that even when not working they have a hard time maintaining condition on hay alone.

    Speaking of hay, I feed 35ish pounds per horse per day, for about 250-300 days, which is about 9000 lbs per horse.

    I have been working this around in my head ever since I started this endeavor. I always intended to raise my own grain. Finding land and equipment, and perfecting the techniques are challenge enough, then comes storage.

    As we are carving out farmland from forest, grazing is about all we can provide right now, but we are moving toward developing enough open land to provide feedstocks for all that we produce here. When envisioning this, it becomes clear that the bulk of our farming will always be just to provide for the operation itself. This is why it has been a high priority to use land that had no debt (family land), and build our way into it limiting ourselves to resources and skills that we provide for ourselves.

    Raising grain is still many years down the calendar, but we will start sowing small patches to harvest by hand soon, just to learn the factors. I also know several others in this area who have better land, and who are working at least in part with horses, and I’m thinking about how to get in cahoots with them.

    Carl

    #60131
    jac
    Participant

    Here is an article I found a while back that might be of interest..I know it doesnt detail amounts of corn as such but might alleviate some worry for some folks regards economics of keeping draft horses..
    John

    #60109
    goodcompanion
    Participant

    @Countymouse 18303 wrote:

    I don’t know if I can really defend the economy of my feeding practices, but I think it might have evolved from two factors.

    Hey, it’s not my intent to make anyone have to defend anything. It’s just that the social scientist in me likes to take a step back and try to figure out where the calories are coming from and going to, and what the implications of future changes in that energy flow might be for me and people like me.

    I would bet that if we didn’t have that cheap grain (which, times being as they are, I am not totally averse to using, particularly for chickens and pigs) we teamsters would still be in a pretty good place. But maybe most of us would be working bonier horses.

    Perceptions of good animal condition certainly change with the times too. For instance a lot of photos of cows from the 20s or 30s look really lean to the contemporary eye.

    #60126
    mitchmaine
    Participant

    when we bought this farm, the fields were run out, and we could barely mow three acres for the pine and alder. my neighbor urged me to plow up some, and i worried over lost hay. we put down an acre of oats underseeded with grass. i was going to make oat hay, but another neighbor wanted the straw, and we went into the straw bussiness, cause we could not get the grain without lots of tools. anyway the acre of hay under the oats was more than the two acres of poor grass, so i never worried about that one again.
    planting grain on your own soil improves your farm and feeds your critters. all you need is a plow and a harrow to get it in. collecting the grain is the trick. four of us went in on a binder and thresher. worked great until we started moving equipment back and forth. that arrangement stopped working, so i got an old small combine and do alot of tinkering. john, i read your amish study. very interesting. i have some thoughts, maybe later. mitch

    #60117
    Does’ Leap
    Participant

    I have thought about this quite a bit myself. Our main reason for having the horses is definitely the joy of them, but I like to think about energy use as well. I like the fact that they put up more hay than they eat. We feed next to no grain, but I wonder if we should. We have top notch pasture 6-7 mos a year then they are on hay. we had one this winter start to lose a little conditions so we supplemented with about 3# alfalfa pellets with oil. We have not had a loss of condition under work that has really bothered me, but I am wondering about the energy level. They definitely seemed pretty whipped during haying last year and am wondering if a little grain boost would help out there.

    Also, I have been feeding a daily selinium supplement, figuring that’s all they need with a good pasture, but what do you all think? Anyone have a great reasonable priced mineral mix they like to feed? free choice?

    Kristan

    #60130
    Matthew
    Participant

    This is just my opinion on the subject, I feel that young horses still growing and horses under heavy work need grain. Idle horses usualy don’t need grain, but it depends on the time of year and if they are on pasture or hay. One thing I dont think anyone touched on was hay quality we always bought hay and ware I live good hay is hard to make the soil needs lyme and fertilizer people trying to skimp have poor quality hay. I have seen hay from Canada and up state New York that was so high quality with almost all tymothy that you could get by feeding just hay, but if you are feeding a lesser quality hay you might have to ad a little grain especially in the winter. Another thing not touched on is the horses fast digestion rate now I am no expert on the internal workings of a horse but with a single chambered stomach the horse does not digest food well like a cow. If you feed whole grains like oats it is best to feed a crimped grain to speed up the breakdown, I have also seen horses fed hay first then grain to slow the grain and kinda stop it up so it is digested better. You can be wasting alot of money if your horses are pooping out un digested grain. The green grass is definatly the best thing for any grazing animal the vitamins, minerals and protien can’t be beat. My friend who has a darry farm across the street from me has a huge jump in milk production when his cows go on spring pasture and they get fed alot of grain, soy, hay and silage through out the year. Grain is a good tool to get horses in the barn even just a hand full but to many people think they are doing thair horse a favor and feed to mutch grain if they are not burning it up it just makes hot horses.

    #60118
    Does’ Leap
    Participant

    Just to add to Kristan’s comments, we also do not feed grain b/c of Equine Polysaccharide Storage Myopathy (EPSM) and its connection with grain feeding, particularly in drafts. For those interested in more information, here’s a link to a couple of good articles:
    http://www.ruralheritage.com/vet_clinic/epsm.htm.

    George

    #60121
    Big Horses
    Participant

    We’ve gone from feeding whole oats to “naked oats”, and are extremely pleased with the results…especially with some of our older horses. They sure seem to be processing and utilizing the naked oats much better than they did with whole oats, and feeding less volume has made it even a bit more economical. I plan on putting a chunk of ground into them this fall. There are a couple farmers who grow them in the valley here, and they’re always almost sold out. The people that try them are all very happy.
    http://www.geertsonseedfarms.com/Pages/NakedOats.htm

    John

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