head position while working

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  • May 19, 2010 at 7:07 pm #41670
    fabian
    Participant

    meanwhile the boys know their commands, they are apart from the cows and i walk each day about an hour with them.

    But:
    Fred, the near steer, holds his head up like the oxen in this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX-XJ9zMJx8

    while George, the off steer, holds his head more like the oxen in this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Yp1SvTbU4&feature=related

    both pull together, no one falls back or pushes more forward than the other.
    But, although they are twins, they won’t make a perfect show team. But this is not what I want to make them.
    I set George’s bow higher, I set it deeper, no result.
    Perhaps I should say you that he walks also with head down when NOT in yoke. May be that he wants to show me how much he suffers 😉
    Fred’s work looks more easier and elegant.

    Do you see any problems with a “not optimal head position” ?

    thank you

    Wolfgang

    May 20, 2010 at 2:44 pm #60243
    Tim Harrigan
    Participant

    http://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?t=224

    There was some discussion of this a while ago. If you read about this you may get the impression that this is a problem that is easily corrected by some some adjustments in the bows, etc. But it looks like at least Rob and Vicki and I have had steers that just seem to prefer to carry their head low and bow adjustment does not have much of an effect.

    I guess it is a little annoying but as long as they are pulling well it is not a practical problem. I can sure think of a lot of habits that would be a lot worse than carrying the head low. Perhaps if you were pulling loads frequently that were near the upper limit of their ability some problems might be revealed but I am not sure of that.

    Have you tried a three pad collar?

    May 20, 2010 at 6:15 pm #60237
    CharlyBonifaz
    Member

    at least 3times it is the off animal, is it always this position?

    May 20, 2010 at 7:04 pm #60244
    Tim Harrigan
    Participant

    That is a good question. With my team it is the off ox who likes to carry his head low.

    May 20, 2010 at 8:15 pm #60240
    fabian
    Participant

    @Tim Harrigan 18390 wrote:

    Have you tried a three pad collar?

    I have tried it a couple of years ago with one of my cows,
    but I’m known in Germany as “being not a friend of it”.
    Its correct adjustment is to difficult for my small brain 😉

    @Tim Harrigan 18393 wrote:

    That is a good question. With my team it is the off ox who likes to carry his head low.

    would it be worth the try of changing the positions, only for getting a result ?? :rolleyes:

    Wolfgang

    May 20, 2010 at 8:26 pm #60238
    CharlyBonifaz
    Member

    it just sort of came to me with the last threat, the off animals, and here you describe the same problem on the same side….
    body language? and then what….???

    May 20, 2010 at 8:43 pm #60245
    Tim Harrigan
    Participant

    It has crossed my mind in the past that he may be lowering his head to improve his vision of me. So it could be this is more common with the off ox. Maybe switching sides would change how he carries his head. I think if they carry their head low to see the teamster and it becomes a habit, that would be hard to change. He also carries his head low when I drive from behind and ride on the stoneboat or sled. He has to lower it to see past the yoke. So these things could contribute to his behavior, but on the other hand, he has tended to carry his head low since he was quite young, at least six months old.

    May 20, 2010 at 9:04 pm #60232
    Vicki
    Participant

    Tim, I never would have thought of that possible explanation–trying to see me under the yoke–for holding the head low. It is my off who does this; maybe Charly is on to something.

    My off, my low-head, is also my no. 2 ox and I wonder if he is intimidated by the dominant near ox to keep his eye and horn just a bit lower.

    May 20, 2010 at 9:27 pm #60241
    fabian
    Participant

    @Vicki 18397 wrote:

    My off, my low-head, is also my no. 2 ox and I wonder if he is intimidated by the dominant near ox to keep his eye and horn just a bit lower.

    So it is with mine …..

    May 21, 2010 at 9:51 am #60239
    CharlyBonifaz
    Member

    so if it were body language indeed, is there any way to change it? wider yokes? is it something that can be changed at all? being fixed together, no2 cannot get out of a potentially intimidating situation….
    another idea: off ox very often is taller/bigger; does he not have to carry his head lower if the yoke has to remain horizontally?

    May 21, 2010 at 9:50 pm #60235
    bivol
    Participant

    @CharlyBonifaz 18410 wrote:

    so if it were body language indeed, is there any way to change it? wider yokes? is it something that can be changed at all? being fixed together, no2 cannot get out of a potentially intimidating situation….
    another idea: off ox very often is taller/bigger; does he not have to carry his head lower if the yoke has to remain horizontally?

    well, this has crossed my mind: oxen will walk the nearest to their normal walking position when they know they can’t get any better pushing position (more touching surface) by holding their heads down.

    so when i look oxen working in istrian bow yoke (it has a round neck seat, when compared to the flatter neck seat of the american bow yoke) i can see that (look at the attachment)

    that’s the only thing not already said i can think off right now… maybe a different yoke with neck seats like an istrian yoke?…

    or, see how in first video oxen are alert and fast, and in the second they’re lethargic? solution (maybe) nose baskets and driving them faster, so they need to walk with heads raised…

    May 21, 2010 at 10:02 pm #60242
    fabian
    Participant

    no matter if the big ox should be the off ox…..
    no matter if the head should be kept high……
    tried this evening a switching of the team and it doesn’t work…..
    Fred ist dominant over George, he horned him and George responds better……
    Since I’m not an absolute greenhorn in training of cattle, I made the experience that it works better to have the dominant ox as neigh ox…..
    so I have more control over him……
    and if George wants to keep his head down while working : I don’t care.
    They chose their place in the yoke themselves and now they must learn to live with it.;)

    Wolfgang

    May 22, 2010 at 10:29 pm #60236
    bivol
    Participant

    yes.

    basically if they pull fine, it shouldn’t be a big issue if they hold heads up or down (given the yoke is comfortable, as it is).

    March 17, 2012 at 1:23 am #60250
    Andy Carson
    Moderator

    My team both hold thier heads low when pulling, but in slightly different positions. It ameks me wonder about yoke fit a little. I tried moving the yoke up, but they were obviously uncomfortable. There isn’t much room to move the bows down more, but perhaps I should try o squeeze out the last inch and see what happens. Can anyone tell from looking at this photo if thier heads down approach looks like thier own style or if it looks like I might have a yoke comfort issue? Short of trying different sized yokes (which is difficult) how can I tell?

    March 17, 2012 at 2:01 am #60246
    Tim Harrigan
    Participant

    Can’t really tell from that, looks like the bows might be too low.

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