EPSM diagnosis

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  • #41822
    Does’ Leap
    Participant

    Some of you may have remembered us asking about the respiration rate on one of our horses while spreading manure this spring. Well we have some follow up to this. We have been using this horse all summer and during light work you wouldn’t notice anything but after a few hours of more strenuous pulling it is clear that he just couldn’t keep up well with his teammate. We rest much more because of him. His lungs are as clear as can be he just doesn’t seem to be able to fill them. I’ve been poking around as to why this might be, and the other clue I had to work with is that he has been dragging a hind toe for a year or so, not super noticeable but you can see it in the hoof.

    We had the vet come check him out and found nothing at all wrong, all that was unusual was that resting heart and respiration rates were a little high, 40 and 19 but all else looked great. we did the genetic test forEPSM and he came up positive, apparently he has both genes for it, which makes cases worse. The other sort of unfortunate thing is that we seem to be already following the vet recommended management…a diet of high quality forage and lots of turnout and exercise. we are now trying to put him on a high fat diet, which according to our vet is not research proven, but we will see if we see improvements.

    what is interesting is that the first thing the vet said when she saw him is “this doesn’t look like an epsm horse” He is slick and filled out and totally muscled.

    Kristan

    #61279
    Andy Carson
    Moderator

    Dr. Beth Valentine is accessible as a virtual vet on the Rural Heritage website. She is very knowledgable about EPSM and answers questions quickly and completely. She might have some ideas that would help.

    #61275
    Does’ Leap
    Participant

    the rural heritage site has a wealth of information and has made me quite hopeful. I am surprised though that the high fat diet seems to be considered quackery by some, since it seems so well established according to that site. My vet is definitely supportive of us trying that, since there is nothing to lose and there are not any better strategies she can suggest.

    I haven’t contacted Dr. Valentine on the site figuring I wouldn’t bug her unless some specific questions come up. The plan is pretty well laid out there and we will try it for a while and see how things go. One question I do have is about the grass…it seems like the recommended diet for most cases but some horses seem to have such a sugar sensitivity it has to be quite limited. I am going to keep with my pasture plan for the time being and see what the response is to fat. Unfortunately it seems to take 4 mos. before you really know if it helps. that’s a lot of oil. we are feeding his teammate the same way since they are half brothers.

    Kristan

    #61280
    Howling Farmer
    Participant

    Kristan — I was wondering how your horse was doing on the diet. Your post actually prompted me to think that maybe my Haflinger also has EPSM. Similar symptoms to yours. I was wondering how you are feeding the Vitamin E and Selenium. Are you using “people supplements?” I looked at Tractor Supply and didn’t find anything for horses. Haven’t check with the feed mill yet.
    Leslie

    #61278
    dominiquer60
    Moderator

    Leslie,

    If you look online at different horse/vet supply places you can find a number of supplements like these Vit E and Se crumbles http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=2e87c065-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5. I don’t know which is best but shop around, Tractor Supply doesn’t always have the best prices either.

    Erika

    #61273
    Jean
    Participant

    My vet said to be sure you got natural vit e and sel, not processed. http://greenmountaindraft.org

    This link will take you to a piece about vit e and sel he wrote for our newsletter. Go to the newsletter tab.

    Jean

    #61276
    Does’ Leap
    Participant

    Thanks Jean,

    I tried the link to the newletter, but only found some photos. I vaguely remember reading that article,but it was before I was dealing with this. Selenium supplementation is definitely something we were neglecting until a few months ago, they had been on a forage only diet so were getting essentially none. I’ve since been buying the selenium and e crumbles, but they are expensive, a 10 day supply is costing me $17, and I don’t think it is the yeast form, which I guess is what your vet means by “natural”? Does anyone have any good bulk sources for selenium yeast? We spoke with our grain dealer, but the stuff they have is way too concentrated for us to measure out safely.

    Kristan

    #61274
    Jean
    Participant

    Here is the piece that was in the newsletter.

    To E or not to E
    We often get a lot of questions in regards to vitamin E and Selenium. Should I feed it, does my horse need it, what the heck does it do? I often reply, “It depends”.

    Vitamin E is a fat soluble vitamin that is an excellent antioxidant and helps support muscle function and the immune system. Selenium has an interrelated function with Vitamin E it basically increases the efficiency of Vitamin E as an antioxidant and is also, very crucial in proper muscle function and a healthy immune system. In a nut shell both Vitamin E and Selenium are free radical scavengers that help with normal oxygen metabolism in the body, which produces toxic free radicals as byproducts. Vitamin E and Selenium are able to neutralize the effect of these toxins.

    When do I supplement? There are many factors that contribute to this decision; some of these factors include diet, pasture, underlying diseases, lameness, and discipline. The only thing we all have in common is that we live in the North East, where the soil is Selenium deficient.

    If your diet does not include grain and you are feeding hay /pasture only, you may not be reaching your horse’s Vitamin E and Selenium requirements. Some pastures will be better than others but since we live in the North East, pasture is not available 6 months out of the year. Most grains are well balanced but only at certain feeding levels. This does not mean we need to feed pounds and pounds of grain, there a lot of mineral based supplements that will fulfill the Vitamin E/Selenium requirement without increasing the concentrate load.

    I like to supplement Vitamin E/Selenium for horses that have certain diseases and lameness. Any muscular disorder is a definite, this would include tie-up horses, EPSM horses, white muscle disease, Shivers, and horses prone to mild cramping. I also like to use Vitamin E/Selenium when I am trying to give the immune system a boost, like chronic respiratory disease, skin conditions, or my geriatric challenged immune systems. As far as discipline is concerned, you may be feeding an adequate amount but the stresses on the body may demand more.

    There are many excellent over the counter supplements. Vitamin E and selenium are very safe products. You should discuss with your veterinarian or nutritionist whether a supplement is warranted and what supplement is right for your horse.

    #61277
    near horse
    Participant

    Don’t you guys have access to Se- salt blocks? Just salt blocks w/ added Se.

    #61281
    Howling Farmer
    Participant

    Yes, I saw the salt blocks at the feed store, but was wondering if they would get a correct dose. I lived most of my life in an area in California where we had to worry about too much selenium (even in the public water supply), so it’s hard to get used to the idea of it being something you actually want to add.

    Jean — thanks for posting the article!

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