DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Sustainable Living and Land use › Sustainable Forestry › Co-operative Horse Powered Forestry Project
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- July 17, 2010 at 2:24 pm #41826Carl RussellModerator
We finally started working on a job in Lilliesville, Vermont, this last week. It is a timber harvest of mostly red spruce, with limited quantities of white pine, harwood sawtimber, and fuelwood. We have put together a crew consisting of Brad Johnson with his team, me with my team, Ben Canonica with his tractor and Payeur forwarder, and Kevin Rae chopping.
This week we cleared nearly 1/2 miles of trails in preparation for a crawler leveling and putting in drainage. The improved trail network will be a primary product of the job, providing functionality to this and subsequent harvests, as well as recreational access. We are all working by the hour as we have varying schedules, and we figure that it will be the easiest way to break out how each contributes to production once cutting is underway.
Our other primary product will be an improved residual stand of multi-aged mixed species. A major portion of the current stand is made up of species such as red maple, red spruce, and paper birch. This stand is melded in transition to one of northern hardwoods, so there are areas where the softwood component is being over-topped by hardwoods, while in other areas there is strong red spruce and white pine regeneration.
We are cutting red spruce primarily, as it is the predominant species. A lot of what we are doing will create small openings in the crown of 1/10 – 1/4 acre in size to either establish pockets of regen, or to release established seedling and saplings. In the areas where northern hardwood predominate, we will be cutting virtually all of the spruce on a single tree basis. There are a few sections where pole-sized spruce and white pine are growing in dense mixed stands, where our harvest will concentrate on removing defective trees, as well as generally releasing highest quality crop trees.
Our trails transect the stand in such a way as no skid will be greater that 300 feet in any direction, with most work being done within 100 feet of small landing areas. We plan to bunch logs alongside our main trails so that the forwarder will be able to stop for a full load at any one area(1mbf ish). I opened up an area yesterday where we should be able to yard 10-15mbf of timber into one area, coming from any direction.
Log prices are not all that high, but the owner is very supportive of the intent of the operation, and will be happy with the improvement over potential financial gain. That being said there is enough timber here that we fully expect to be able to cover our costs from stumpage, and hope to still be able to pay them something. The saving grace is that there is a quantity of pretty good hardwood sawtimber that should add something to the bottom line.
Even so, with 4 people working at $35, we figure that we will need to produce a minimum of 5mbf per day to break even on the spruce, with any production over that producing stumpage. We plan to start each day with 4 saws chopping for an hour or so. When logs are ready, we will start skidding while 2 saw chop. At some point mid morning we expect the forwarder to get underway, with the remainder of the day a mix of chopping and skidding by the rest of us.
We have the capability of using teams on carts, single with a skidding arch, singles twitching, and a bobsled, so we hope to have most of the bases covered. There are some very large white pines and a few big hardwoods that may require the sled to move them. I may also haul out some on the sled at the end of the day, but most of the long hauls will be done by the tractor.
So far we have only stacked up a few mbf as most of our work has been swamping trails, but next week we should be able to focus on cutting and skidding. The crawler will come in by the middle of the week, and we should be putting wood on the landing by the end of the week. We do have a few hundred feet of trails that need to be cut while the crawler is there too.
It is interesting getting started like this with so many parties that don’t usually work together. We each have worked with one another in smaller associations, but never all together at once. This week was partly spent learning each other’s work habits, finding limitations with equipment, chainsaw maintenance, pulling down hang-ups, and overcoming horse behavior flare-ups, but all-in-all we accomplished what we set out to do without major complications.
I’ll keep you up-to-date as we move forward.
Carl
July 17, 2010 at 8:22 pm #61311TaylorJohnsonParticipantCarl , this sounds like a cool project. It would be nice to have enough guys living close enough to do more stuff like this . The best of luck and I will be waiting to hear more about this project in the future. I think that is a good set up you are talking about using with that diversified a bunch of equipment their wont be much you all can’t get done efficiently. I often think about working with more teamsters and what can be done. I have worked with other teamsters but never long enough to become as efficient as one could be I think. Hey Carl good luck again and post lots of pics. Taylor Johnson
July 19, 2010 at 2:54 pm #61304Scott GParticipantIts awesome when a long term operational plan/layout is actually a component of the management plan. Having well laid out trails with the entire stand taken into consideration vs random trails that have occured to cut specific area/product will be a huge bonus for your operation as well as the woodsmen of the future.
Be great if you could document some numbers on the horse/forwarder combo, Carl.
Best of luck
August 4, 2010 at 2:28 am #61289Carl RussellModeratorWe’ve been pretty busy over the last few weeks.
We improved and cleared a network of trails nearly 1 mile long. Road work was completed prior to any skidding or forwarding. That means stumped, waterbarred with broad-based dips, and crowned. This way the roads will hold up during the entire operation, and all we will need to do is back blade and seed.
We are twitching logs into small landings in the woods where the tractor drawn forwarder can pick them up and haul them to the roadside.
This is one of our larger landing areas where logs can be drawn in from three different directions. It is a large opening, but will eventually play an important role in recreation and wildlife management, as an opening with plantings of wildlife shrubs. Trails leading to and from are already travel corridors, so this should be quite a place to sit and wait.
This is a typical skid trail into a dense stand of red spruce, white pine, and red maple. We are harvesting trees with defects like forks, blister-rust, or marketable trees that are competing with others with good potential.
Carl
August 4, 2010 at 2:34 am #61290Carl RussellModeratorThis is a small patch cut, or overstory removal of red spruce. I cut 12 trees from this little area…. notice the red spruce regeneration that is untouched.
Try that with a skidder.
Ben Canonica from Chelsea, VT., also a horse logger, has brought his tractor drawn forwarder instead of his horses. This landing is about 1/2 mile from the roadside. He is loading about 1MBF and the round trip takes about 3/4 hour. If you look closely, in the center of the photo, just above the pile of logs hidden in the greenery, you can see a brown patch that is my team of horses on a skid trail about to enter the landing.(Just want to ad proof that it is a horse logging job).
Carl
August 4, 2010 at 2:35 am #61291Carl RussellModeratorAugust 4, 2010 at 2:08 pm #61315mitchmaineParticipanthey carl, nice looking job. how big is the woodlot, and area to be thinned. how much do you expect it to cut? looks nice and open from the pictures. good luck, and hey to brad. mitch
August 5, 2010 at 1:03 am #61292Carl RussellModeratorAugust 5, 2010 at 1:24 am #61293Carl RussellModeratormitchmaine;20058 wrote:hey carl, nice looking job. how big is the woodlot, and area to be thinned. how much do you expect it to cut? looks nice and open from the pictures. good luck, and hey to brad. mitchWe are working in a section of about 50 acres. I expect to cut about 50 mbf of spruce, 20mbf of white pine, and 10-15mbf of hardwood, with possibly 30 cords of wood.
Some sections are open, others are very dense. We’re starting to get a rhythm, although there has been a spate of mechanical failures from chainsaws to tractors. So far the horses have been healthy and active.
Carl
August 5, 2010 at 1:28 am #61309Joshua KingsleyParticipantLooks like a great job. Makes me long to go back into the woods. Keep up the good work
JoshuaAugust 5, 2010 at 3:33 am #61306Scott GParticipant@Carl Russell 20046 wrote:
We are harvesting trees with defects like forks, blister-rust, or marketable trees that are competing with others with good potential.
Carl
Carl, are you talking about white pine blister rust (Cronartium ribicola)? I thought you guys had that licked for the most part in the NE. It is kicking our butt out here in the whitebark, limber, and bristlecone pines. Quite possible we are going to lose an entire ecosystem type.
Nice show, looks like fun. Gotta like those horse/forwarder mixed harvesting systems! 😉
August 5, 2010 at 1:47 pm #61308near horseParticipantNice, Carl. You give some of us hope when you show these cooperative logging operations!
Scott – I heard a story on the radio that the demise of whitebark pines was due to infestation with bark beetles – that never used to be able to survive at the elevation WBP’s grow (near 8000 ft, isn’t it?). Do they also get blister rust? Western white pine used to be the cash tree here in Idaho 100 yrs ago and the University maintains a whitepine seed lot(?) – to produce seed considered more resistant to the rust …
Sorry about hijacking the thread. Just seemed to fit.
August 5, 2010 at 2:05 pm #61294Carl RussellModeratorScott G;20071 wrote:…. white pine blister rust (Cronartium ribicola)? I thought you guys had that licked for the most part in the NE. ….Not really. There was a huge Ribes (Gooseberry/Currant, secondary host) eradication program during 1950-60’s, but like all things, it was only partially successful. Now people can by gooseberries and plant them. It is really only a small portion of trees that are affected, and by cutting those trees we can interrupt the life cycle of the fungus.
Carl
August 6, 2010 at 1:59 am #61305Scott GParticipant@near horse 20077 wrote:
Scott – I heard a story on the radio that the demise of whitebark pines was due to infestation with bark beetles – that never used to be able to survive at the elevation WBP’s grow (near 8000 ft, isn’t it?). Do they also get blister rust? Western white pine used to be the cash tree here in Idaho 100 yrs ago and the University maintains a whitepine seed lot(?) – to produce seed considered more resistant to the rust …
Geoff,
We are getting the double whammy, bark beetles (MPB) & WPBR. MPB is blowing everything out of the water that we thought we knew about the species, including going to higher elevations (here 10,000′ easy). We are in the midst of a large genetic conservation project to collect white pine cones, grow out the seed, and test the progeny for rust resistance. Like Carl mentioned, WPBR has an alternate host (like all rust fungi) and those are Ribes sp.. Rusts have five life (spore) stages, 3 of which reside on the alternate host (Ribes) and 2 on the white (5-needled) pine.
Our biggest threat that other regions have not had to deal with is that MPB is killing off most of (if not all) the seed trees and WPBR is taking out the small regen & sapling/pole sized stock. That is why I said we are truly in a dire situation of quit possibly losing an entire high elevation ecosystem type. The race is on for cone collection before the good seed trees get nuked by MPB. Unfortunately the limber pine cone crop sucks this year.
So, there’s your answer. I also do not want to hijack the thread. The current show Carl has going is way cool and exactly the type of combined system I have been on the soapbox about in the past.
If we want to start a different forest health thread that would be OK. Right now I’m consumed with getting my wife/daughters through the mayhem of the County fair.
August 6, 2010 at 3:37 am #61312TaylorJohnsonParticipantGreat pics Carl, How many horse power is that tractor? That is some nice looking country you guys live in out there. Taylor Johnson
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