trouble with fallow

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  • #41889
    Andy Carson
    Moderator

    I have a 5 acre field that I have kept fallow this year in preparation for crops next year. It was pretty late in the season before I got to it, and the weeds were pretty high. Mostly Canada goldenrod, but also patched of thistle, lambsquarters, scattered wild carrot, and various grasses. I have disced the field several (about 4) times now and most of the broadleaf weeds are (at least for now) eliminated, but not the grasses. I don’t know what types of grasses these are, as they are very young, but it is not crabgrass. I have been hoping for a clean field before planting oats and peas as a cover, but a little grass keeps hanging on (or resprouts). I am not sure if I am germinating weed seeds and then ripping them out, or if I am failing to kill the grasses with the disc, but I would guess it’s a mix. I might be able to springtooth now, and I think that would do a better job on the grasses, but the residue will still make this hard… Maybe I ought to skim plow, but I don’t want to go very deep and the left over grasses are far from a “sod.” Maybe a little left over grass isn’t really a problem and I ought just get my cover crop in the ground… Any thoughts???

    #61688
    Tim Harrigan
    Participant

    Andy, a lot of the grass that is re-growing is probably quack grass that sprouts from both seed and underground rhizomes. It is really persistent. Tillage kills it by uprooting it and then dessicating it. If you are getting the rains alot of us have had this summer it is probably not killing by dessication very well, and the disc really mixes the soil deep and pulls weed seeds up from the seed bank. Maybe you should till shallow a couple of times and seed the oat mix about Sept 1. That will probably give you a good 6 weeds of oat/pea growth for a cover.

    #61701
    Andy Carson
    Moderator

    Thanks for the thoughts Tim. Yes, much of the grass is probably quackgrass. And yes, the new growth (or regrowth) does correspond to the rain. I have gotten the field worked a couple times and thought I was done, then the rain came and I had all sorts of grass come up. If this is spreading primarily by rhizomes, I can probably rip them out and dry them up with a harrow. I can pick up most of the clumps with my hands, as many have tended to “rise to the top” as I’ve worked the field… I worry about the few clumps that aren’t close to the surface, but it seems that to get to those, I risk burying lots of “clumps.”

    #61681
    Does’ Leap
    Participant

    Andy:

    I have had my battles with quackgrass as well. I have found a springtooth harrow works well in bringing up the rhizomes. If you’re feeling really motivated, removing those rhizomes by hand will go a long way, especially with the wet weather.

    George

    #61689
    Tim Harrigan
    Participant

    Andy, a shallow springtooth harrow, 2 inches or so might be best to uproot the new growth. One problem with a disk is that it keeps chopping the rhizomes up into smaller and smaller pieces and each piece can send up a new shoot if the conditions are right. Cleaning trash out of the harrow is not much fun either. You might want to consider tillage until Oct 1 and then going with a cereal rye cover with early spring tillage to take out the rye.

    #61683
    Iron Rose
    Participant

    Best way I have found to get rid of quack is to turn a few pigs in there. To pigs quack roots are like candy they can’t get enough of them. I used to plant a few acres of corn and turn the pigs in there around the middle of August. They would clean up the weeds and grasses,then start on the corn. By the first of November they were ready for market . Corn was picked, no feed to grind, no manure to spread ,ground worked up (hit with a disc and plant).

    Dan
    SE MN

    #61702
    Andy Carson
    Moderator

    The pigs are a fascinating idea, although I do not relish the fencing that might be involved… In my experience, pigs require quality fences, but I have to admit I have only kept them in pens they wanted to get out of. Maybe if they were in a field with lots of food and room, I could keep them with some simple electric wire… How many pigs would you guess it would take to “work” 5 acres and how long do they take? I am sure this depends on alot of things, but I am just curious about rough numbers to see if this is feasable for this field.

    #61703
    Andy Carson
    Moderator

    I read that one group used 3 pigs in a 12×12 corral that would be moved once every day… I don’t know if this is a “normal” stocking rate for this purpose, but it gives me numbers to work with. That’s 48 square feet per pig per day (12×12/3), or about 1440 square feet per pig per month. 3 months would be 4320 square feet, so to work 5 acres in 3 months would require 50 pigs (43560×5/4320). I don’t think I want 50 pigs… Does this answer seem ridiculous?

    #61690
    Tim Harrigan
    Participant

    You don’t want 50 pigs? That is ridiculous.

    #61682
    Does’ Leap
    Participant

    Andy:

    We train our pigs to one strand of polywire. If you have good voltage on your fence (i.e. 3000 volts or more), pigs will respect it. I can set up a half acre paddock in the woods in less than an hour.

    George

    #61687
    OldKat
    Participant

    @Countymouse 20333 wrote:

    I read that one group used 3 pigs in a 12×12 corral that would be moved once every day… I don’t know if this is a “normal” stocking rate for this purpose, but it gives me numbers to work with. That’s 48 square feet per pig per day (12×12/3), or about 1440 square feet per pig per month. 3 months would be 4320 square feet, so to work 5 acres in 3 months would require 50 pigs (43560×5/4320). I don’t think I want 50 pigs… Does this answer seem ridiculous?

    Andy,

    I don’t know about pastured pigs; I have never owned any pigs that were put out on pasture. However, we have feral pigs in our area. There are about a dozen and a half that travel in a pack that routinely travels in our area; despite the best efforts to trap, shoot or fence them out.

    The rooting that they can do in a night is astounding. I’d say they can root anywhere anywhere from 1/8 to 1/4 acre per night and do a pretty thorough job of it. Devastating when they get in your pastures for several nights. Not sure if feral pigs can root more than domesticated ones, or not.

    #61704
    Andy Carson
    Moderator

    Wow, that comes out to each pig working 5-10 times more area per day than in the other example. I would guess that feral pigs would me more motivated to root, but I wouldn’t guess 5-10 times more… This would reduce the number of pigs required to work the field in 3 months from 50 to 5-10. Big difference. I am guessing these two figures are on the extreme opposite ends of the spectrum and that the number I would need would be somewhere between these two rates. Maybe around 20? That’s still a lot of pigs…

    #61700
    blue80
    Participant

    Side note on this thread,
    I had the opportunity to watch tv a few weeks ago, kids and I watched green planet or something.
    Fascinating show on feral pigs, their size, how quickly they are multiplying in the southern states, and how they have adapted to conditions. Also how they appear to have Russian genes, that somebodies have been importing big guys from Russia, originally for hunting purposes!

    In s. indiana where there was a lot of karst topography, it was tough to have a pond hold water for years on end. Locals would rent pigs for a year and pen them in a leaky pond area, the hoof action would reseal the ponds….

    #61705
    Andy Carson
    Moderator

    Not to discount the pigs, but I think I’ll keep tilling until October and plant some rye. Partially because I think the tillage will eventually work (thanks for the encouragement everyone) and partially because I hate to put my horse away. I have to admit all this tillage is kinda fun. With all the passes back and forth I am getting what feels like a telepathic connection with my horse. Pretty cool… I was mowing the lawn the other day on the riding lawnmower and yelled “whoa” as I hit the brake, so maybe it’s not really telepathy…

    #61678
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    Two things I will contribute.

    The pigs are a good idea. We are using them now on a forest to pasture conversion. Single strand poly wire with good voltage. We have 2 sows and 7 offspring, and we expect to cover 5 acres this season. I have found that I need to limit feed to keep them curious, which is probably one answer to the difference in the number quoted earlier. I have also used them in our gardens and they are a great “permaculture” tool.

    As far as fallow, I have found that trying to get ahead of weeds in a dirt fallow is very hard. I think you would have much better luck to get the cover crop on right away and let the crop do some of your work for you by out competing the weeds and other grasses. Then if you have to work that into the soil several times with subsequent cover crops, broad leaf combos like buckwheat, or clover, oats, fields peas, rye…..

    On another note, and this is just a very small plot, we are sheet composting on an old garden that is completely overgrown with grass. I lay down a layer of 4+ sheets of newspaper, then cover it with stable waste from having the horses in the barn before and after work this summer. I also cover that with mulch hay. It seems to be doing a good job of killing the sod, and providing a reservoir of future organic material. Some grass seed is sprouting from the manure though……

    Not an expert, just attempting to survive.

    Carl

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