DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Sustainable Living and Land use › Sustainable Farming › Raw Milk Facts
- This topic has 24 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 7 months ago by Dan Buczala.
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- November 25, 2010 at 3:28 am #42145dominiquer60Moderator
10 days from now I will be on the floor of the NY State Farm Bureau annual meeting defending raw milk. Last year we made it our state policy to support a certified raw milk program. This year many counties reaffirmed supporting this program, as did the Local and Organic Committee. Apparently there are more counties though, that want to completely ban raw milk. I know that Farm Family Insurance wants nothing to do with it and there is one young Western NY dairy farmer that is aggressively vocal against it.
Their big battle cry is that raw milk receives negative press at times which depresses the fluid milk market, in turn, hurting their struggling businesses.
I am collecting facts about raw milk vs. pasteurized milk, I am looking for how it benefits health and local economies. I think that big dairies make more negative press against them selves than the rare raw milk case ever does.
If you have any favorite solid facts promoting raw milk, or showing the risks that are current even after milk has been pasteurized, I would love to have some more fuel for this debate.
Thanks in advance for any info and have a Happy Thanksgiving.
Erika
November 25, 2010 at 12:14 pm #63494Dan BuczalaMemberErika,
You might want to check out a book called “The Untold Story Of Milk”,
by Ron Schmid. Lots of info in support of raw milk.Amazon has a summary at
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0967089743/ref=mp_s_a_2?qid=1290686729&sr=8-2
Dan
November 25, 2010 at 1:35 pm #63485Tim HarriganParticipanthttp://www.textbookofbacteriology.net/kt_toc.html
This is a link to Todar’s on-line Textbook of Bacteriology. If you type in ‘milk’ you will at least get an overview of range of organisms of concern. Listeria is probably one of the most troublesome because it can grow and reproduce at refrigerated temperatures.
I would also cruise the Center for Disease Control website and see what they have. You are probably not going to find the stats cleanly compiled that you want, but you might find some good stuff.
November 25, 2010 at 8:30 pm #63476near horseParticipantDoes the CDC put out “Morbidity/Mortality Weekly”?
It’s a real publication with reported disease data reported on a weekly basis (if I’m remembering fro my microbiology classes correctly).
Also, Erika, you are on the Food Democracy Now (http://www.fooddemocracynow.org/) mailing list, aren’t you? They might have some facts already sorted and compiled.
Once again the industry argument of guilt by association is “kicking the dog”. The fluid milk market is over-producing and thus, prices are low. The standard ag econ response – get bigger to spread the fixed costs. That makes perfect sense, produce more milk into a saturated market and when that doesn’t fix it, blame the dog (raw milk)! For crying out loud, they’ve already got a government price support structure that the raw milk folks don’t get to dip into. What more can they want?
The arguments that will be thrown at you for banning its sale will likely be the “x” number of bacterial species that are found in raw milk, many of which are also not destroyed completely by pasteurization.
Here are a few things I ran across from googling “raw milk”.OPDC milk products are highly pathogen resistant. In more than 120 million servings, and more than eight years of intensive testing, not one single pathogen has been found or detected in our raw milk samples.
As part of the Food Safety Program at OPDC, OPDC tested all of its cows manure in the summer of 2008 and found no Ecoli 1057H7 present. The manure pathogen tests were performed at the UC Davis and CDFA milk products lab in San Bernardino CA.
In summary, it has been theorized that the combination of grass feeding, no antibiotics used, no hormones, and low levels of grain used in diet cause a change in the cows immune system and rumen. This change in physiology directly inhibits pathogen development in the milk (actually a transfer from environmental contamination that does not seem to occur; there are no bad bugs in the manure that transfer into the milk and the clean raw milk is highly pathogen resistant).
http://www.organicpastures.com/faq.html
Production of nisin
Raw milk contains lactococci. If favourable conditions for growth occur then high numbers will result. Some Lc. lactis strains produce the antibiotic nisin. Nisin is a broad spectrum antibiotic and if produced it will inhibit some starter cultures …….
Natural indigenous antimicrobial proteinsThe ability of raw milk to inhibit the growth of many bacterial species has been known for many years and one of the earliest reports was authored by Hesse in 1894.
http://www.dairyscience.info/inhibitors-in-milk/51-inhibitors-in-milk.html
Sorry, I started to get carried away!! Get ’em Erika.
November 26, 2010 at 1:34 am #63479dominiquer60ModeratorAtta boy Geoff!
I have a good deal of non-scientific reasons, but it is also good to have some facts to quote, especially from well respected sources.
I think that the big one that worked in our favor last year is that raw milk gives young or new farmers looking for a low cost, low input enterprise a chance to have a lucrative dairy without breaking the bank or affecting the wholesale fluid market. More farmers= more Farm Bureau members, and the organization is starved and dying fast, so why turn them away.
I am sharpening my pencil and preparing for what those western NY farmers have to through at me. The guys in the east don’t care and would rather vote yes and support keeping opportunities open for those that don’t have the chance to inhert mega dairies.
November 26, 2010 at 4:10 am #63474Scott GParticipant@dominiquer60 22305 wrote:
I am sharpening my pencil and preparing for what those western NY farmers have to through at me. The guys in the east don’t care and would rather vote yes and support keeping opportunities open for those that don’t have the chance to inhert mega dairies.
Give ’em hell, Erika! Best of luck to you. Might help if you invite a reporter from a respected local paper to attend the hearing. Bureaucrats listen much better when someone is taking notes… Somehow people seem to associate QC with larger operations. That’s a crock…
November 26, 2010 at 10:15 am #63471Carl RussellModeratorErika, I will send you to a Powerpoint done by our friend Lindsay Harris..She was milking Clover at NEAPFD with you and Lisa…. She runs a small raw milk dairy, and put together a great presentation busting a lot of myths about raw milk….all with CDC’s own numbers.
Her farm website http://familycowfarmstand.intuitwebsites.com/ has many other awesome raw milk links. Go to the “About us and Videos” page and in a text box you find a downloadable(?) version of her Powerpoint presentation.
We fought this battle in the VT Sate Legislature a few years ago, and found that discussions about safety and disease are very scary to people, and while we can’t just let them get away with spreading scary untruths, we also found that we needed to concentrate as much on the rights of small farmers to be able to sell to customers who are seeking the product.
Lindsay’s PP shows how the numbers about diseases are blown out of proportion, but that potential risk issue is a hard one to beat.
I think farmers who are threatened by raw milk, are really threatened by farmers who have a real relationship with their customers. I would be pretty nervous if I was shipping huge quantities of milk every other day to an unseen, unknown mass of people, who were not ultimately buying my milk, but a mixture of milk from other farms as well.
Thanks for fighting the good fight, Carl
November 26, 2010 at 7:03 pm #63477near horseParticipantCarl,
You are right with regard to both the right to provide TO a customer as well as the right of the customer to CHOOSE a product. You all might have a better handle on what to expect “argument -wise” from the opposition but I would be concerned that the “food safety” points could hurt the raw milk side unless they are addressed in a well-thought out respone.
If it comes down to the “rights” of one group vs the “perceived” safety of consumers, you know where most legislators will place there vote. That’s not to say the rights aren’t an issue nor the benefit(s) from having a way for new small farmers to get in the game.
I don’t know about taking this approach, but one could make the argument that milk (even pasteurized) is not a “safe product” with the evidence being the number of illnesses resulting from consuming pasteurized milk. But in reality, no is meat or any food stuff is “completely safe”. There is always some risk in eating – and one variable is the consumer’s knowledge of proper handling and preparation.
I do agree milk is a great medium for growing stuff – good and bad. But knowing that, why wouldn’t we ban all milk and milk products? Because we, the public, are willing to accept the risk (big or small) of consuming those products – AND they’re yummy.
On a side note, hang tough Erika. As inspiration, 3 local residents here in ID are still fighting the good fight against Conoco-Phillips and Exxon-Mobil – trying to stop hundreds of giant loads of oil processing equipment from using a 120 mile+ scenic hwy headed for the Alberta oil sands. So far, these folks have been able to get an injunction, get over-ruled by the ID supreme court and then force another session of public meetings.
Check out http://www.fightinggoliath.com for inspiration and info. Small voices can make a difference.
November 26, 2010 at 7:22 pm #63472Carl RussellModeratornear horse;22311 wrote:…….If it comes down to the “rights” of one group vs the “perceived” safety of consumers, you know where most legislators will place there vote. That’s not to say the rights aren’t an issue nor the benefit(s) from having a way for new small farmers to get in the game.I don’t know about taking this approach, but one could make the argument that milk (even pasteurized) is not a “safe product” with the evidence being the number of illnesses resulting from consuming pasteurized milk. But in reality, no is meat or any food stuff is “completely safe”. There is always some risk in eating – and one variable is the consumer’s knowledge of proper handling and preparation.
……..Geoff, you should take the time…. if interested… to go over the powerpoint presentation that I refer to above…. this is exactly what she covers… and it makes store bought milk look pretty questionable.
In VT Legislature we were able to use the “rights” argument to lead into the creation of a bill that laid out tiered regulation so that very small producers had limited requirements, while the larger producers were subjected to stiffer procedures to ensure public safety.
The public opinion is one thing, but the reality of the situation is that raw milk producers, and their customers have a much more informed relationship, and therefore the issue of safety is relative. The problem is that we have governing bodies that seem to believe they need to save us from ourselves… like making laws to require seat belts. But, the fact is that the purchase and sale understanding seems to be a good enough argument to prevent absolute banning of the sale of raw milk.
Carl
November 26, 2010 at 10:42 pm #63484bivolParticipantHi yal!
hope i’m not too late to chip in, here’s a page that i think will be interesting.http://www.healthbanquet.com/raw-milk-raised.html
and there’s a personal testimony from my grandfather, who told me he would often wait as a kid on the barn treshold for his mom to milk the cows, and then drink the milk straight from the bucket.
he’s over 80 now, fit, nimble, and still has all of his teeth!i’m all for raw, so good luck!
November 27, 2010 at 1:25 am #63473Carl RussellModeratorAlso, here is another link to a discussion forum on family milk cows. There may be some good allies on there.
http://familycow.proboards.com/index.cgi
Carl
December 9, 2010 at 11:34 pm #63480dominiquer60ModeratorI just got back from the NY Farm Bureau State Annual Meeting. This is a 3 day meeting of delegates from 54 NY counties that vote on additions, deletions and changes to our policy book. The policy book is an organized list of what we, a 28,000 member group, support or oppose and is given to all of our local, state and national politicians. In theory our hired staff uses these policies to voice our opinion when they lobby politicians and our politicians are encouraged to reference this book to help them make decisions.
I went to keep our support of raw milk and the direct sale of raw milk. The raw milk was a bit of a struggle, but after a one on one meeting between a large western NY dairy farmer with a young eastern NY hopeful raw milk farmer, an agreement was made and the next day carried out on the delegate floor. I can proudly announce that the NY Farm Bureau now supports our state Ag Dept. to continue the NY Certified Raw Milk Program and the the direct sales of Raw Milk.
It was a worthwhile trip because I also was able to gain the support of the use of animal power for agricultural purposes and transportation, which I discuss on another thread.
Thanks for all of the great info, I certainly increased my knowledge of Raw Milk and was well armed for a debate that we were fortunate enough to not get into.
Erika
December 21, 2010 at 4:14 pm #63491dlskidmoreParticipantI found this interesting article I thought you guys would like. It discusses how we pasteurize because we homoginize, and we homoginize to hide how little cream is in the milk as compared to older sources of milk.
December 21, 2010 at 5:12 pm #63481dominiquer60ModeratorA scary fact about the leader of the anti raw milk group in FB is that he didn’t even know what homogenization was until a young lady sat down and explained it to him, and he is a Cornell Dairy grad scary, just plain scary.
December 21, 2010 at 7:06 pm #63486Tim HarriganParticipantThey cover homogenization in Food Science. Once it leaves the cow it is no longer Animal Science. My guess, anyway.
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