bunk or arch – whats the best?

I think what Carl means is they is a right tool for every job the trick is knowing which one works best for the job your doing ! Of course in snow the sled is the best way to use your horses too there best advantage because the sled moves better in snow! But they are times that a scoot will work better in warm weather than a cart and thats in muddy conditions! The least resistance the horse’s encounter the better they will be able to work!

Thanks George for searching that out….. it was beyond my reduced intelligence last night.

There are several reasons why I think a sled is a good option regardless of season.
1. Distance of skid…. the load can be increased significantly because ground resistance is reduced significantly.
2. The increased load can be handled and maneuvered safely, and more concisely.
3. The angle of draft is much lower, allowing the bio-mechanical lifting action of the horse in motion to be used more efficiently by the animals.
4. Downhill skidding, much larger loads can be moved, reducing number of trips, and taking more advantage of gravity.

I use the cart for these reasons.
1. Short skids, light and often.
2. Maneuverability, moving logs right from the stump to the landing.
3. Teamster safety and convenience…. tools on board, secure location to drive from.
4. Less handling of logs.
5. Although the angle of draft is higher, the mechanism of the hitch creates a pendulum effect, or more accurately it adds a buffer to the draft that can over-ride the reduced efficiency of the higher draft.

I truly see neither as superior over the other….. just more appropriate for different applications..

What may escape the eye though is the fact that within the paradigm that most of us grew up in, the wheel and associated technologies occupy an assumed position of authority. This does not actually diminish the functionality of the sled, whose physical logic is rooted in ancient success as well.

It is discussions like this that allow us to learn new, and relearn old knowledge.

Carl

Rarely does a cart get a log as high of the ground as one on a sled, but when it does, although the wheels roll easier over the ground, the angle of draft is higher. The higher hitch means that the horses can’t apply as much mechanical advantage against the load as they can with a lower hitch such as on the sled.

So while the wheels have less resistance than the runners, the applied energy is different. Functionally there is little difference as the physics of the cart allows for mechanical advantage that the horse loses due to the high hitch.

The difference really comes down to the application of the item to the work at hand. If you are skidding wood 200 feet to the landing, the handling of all that wood makes no sense. However, if you are skidding 1000 feet, then going with 150 BF per hitch doesn’t make sense.

Also to make hitches bigger with a cart, you often must pull tree length, which may allow the end of the log to come high off the ground, but it also allows a lot of tree to drag a long way back disrupting any draft advantage. With a sled handling log length there can be very little ground contact, which seriously reduces resistance.

If you have very large logs that drag almost entirely on the ground even with the highest cart, then putting them on the bunk makes a lot of sense.

This is obviously on frozen ground, but there was no way these two were going to skid this over the terrain even with a cart, so we rolled it on with the horses and it went out with ease.

The point is there is very little that you can’t do with cart alone….. But there are times when using a sled makes a lot of sense. Just having one, with an understanding of how to use it, gives a level of proficiency that make more work possible.

Carl

Do any of you guys have a pic of some steal sleds like that ? Taylor Johnson

The problem with steel is that the sled will tend to be too ridged because of the welded joins, which will have some negative effect of the function of the sled. Also the welds will have to withstand a lot of pressure.

What was the footage on that log 250 feet?

This tree measured 41″ across the butt, 31″ across the top, and 10′ long, scaling about 325 bf, weighing around 3500#.

Carl

they used to scale hardwood pulp at 5100 lbs. per cord. a cord of wood is about 600′. so 350mbf would weigh in at 2975 lb. at that rate, and when you figure the pulp mills are trying to screw you anyways, sounds like carls estimate is pretty close.