DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Equipment Category › Equipment › Snatch Block / Rope Questions
- This topic has 17 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 11 months ago by
jac.
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- January 21, 2011 at 12:18 pm #42347
Does’ Leap
ParticipantI am thinking about purchasing 100′ of 1/2″ bull rope with 10,000+ lb breaking strength and a snatch block. If I am not using the full 100′ and need to tie off somewhere in the middle, how do I do this? I can envision tying off in the middle with a bowline, hooking to the horses, pulling what I need to pull and ending up with a knot that I can’t untie:eek:. Along the same lines, what is the best way to attach your rope to your chain which is attached to your tree?
Thanks.
George
January 21, 2011 at 12:42 pm #65028mitchmaine
Participanthey george, i think i’d stick with the bowline. either end. the beauty of that knot is you can always break it.
January 21, 2011 at 1:00 pm #65020Rick Alger
ParticipantI use a rope grab with a clevis to hook to.
January 21, 2011 at 1:18 pm #65029Participantanother thought and easy to tie. double up your line and make a simple figure eight knot and use the loop left over to hook into. easy to tie and break.
January 21, 2011 at 1:34 pm #65024Iron Rose
ParticipantI always used a Bull Hook to shorten a cable or rope. Will try to find a picture
Dan
SE MNJanuary 21, 2011 at 1:59 pm #65014Carl Russell
ModeratorFigure eight knot is a very good mid-line knot. A double bowline also will work, but creates two loops instead of one.
I usually just tie the rope off on the tree using a cow hitch. Wrap the rope around the tree, loop it around the working rope, then back around the tree the other way. When you get back the the working rope tie it off with half hitches. This knot can be set up to provide a rolling hitch, and it can ALWAYS be untied.
Get two snatch blocks while you’re at it. The added mechanical advantage will be well worth the cost. This way you can also hook high and low leads, and re-directs easily for more functionality. This will be especially important as it requires a lot of room to use ropes in the woods.
I also spent the extra $ for 5/8 or 3/4 rope(I forget). Heavy pulls can be very stressful on ropes, and there is a big difference between breaking strength measured when holding a static load, versus the shock load of a snubbed up log with horses pulling on it.
Just my two cents.
Carl
January 21, 2011 at 2:18 pm #65025Tim Harrigan
ParticipantCarl and others, can you comment on a good length of rope? If you are running 2 blocks with a 2 or 3 part line, plus tying your rope around a good size tree it will not take long to eat up 100 ft of rope. For instance, Carl, how much rope do you estimate you would have run pulling out Erika’s car the other night with a 2:1 advantage? Also, do you use a thimble to terminate the end of these ropes or distribute the stress like you would a wire rope?
January 21, 2011 at 2:58 pm #65015ModeratorMy ropes are 125 feet for climbing, and 150 feet for bull rope.
I keep them in a rope bag, and pack basket. Easier to handle.
No permanent hardware on the ropes.
January 21, 2011 at 4:15 pm #65016ModeratorI would also add that if I didn’t need these ropes for tree removal/arborist work I would not spend the money for using them in the woods.
I also have 250″ of 1″ braided nylon mooring rope that I used in the crane I made to lift logs onto our home.
The number of times I have used rope in the woods can be counted on one hand over 25 years.
There are very few hanging trees that I can’t justify a cut of 1-2′ off the bottom to facilitate pulling them…. or very few time that I have hung a tree in one that I couldn’t justify cutting down.(I know that is to be avoided at all costs:o)
Just like with Erika’s truck, I have found that by the time I went to get the ropes, strung them up, and made enough room for the run-out, I could have gotten the tree on the ground.
On the few trees that I have decided to use ropes, they worked slick, and there would have been no other way….. but I already had the ropes, and paid for them with tree work.
But there are very few tools or supplies that are more valuable than a good rope. Just beware of trying to justify the expense with their use in the woods.
Carl
January 21, 2011 at 6:06 pm #65026Participant@Carl Russell 24043 wrote:
But there are very few tools or supplies that are more valuable than a good rope. Just beware of trying to justify the expense with their use in the woods.
Carl
I need new rope so I will be upgrading to something like George is considering in the near future. I don’t expect to have it pay for itself just on applications in the woods although there are times when I would like to be able to redirect the line of pull for efficiency or safety, or to gain the mechanical advantage needed if I bury a butt on a good size tree. For me it is more in expanding the list of options so that I can break the occasional dependancy on tractor power for some of these jobs.
Sometimes it is hard to assess the payback on some investments. In some cases it seems the payback is there if you just use something every few years if it turns out to be the right tool for the job, particularly if it adds to the safety of you or your animals. Back to the car pulling incident, your team was able to extract the car, probably many teams would not have been able to do it. But given the right use of rigging it could have been hauled out with 1/3 the effort, within the ability of most teams of even smaller or younger animals.
I guess if I could put together some decent rigging for $400-$500 I would not mind if it was not used that often. There is some value for me in knowing that I have options on how to best apply the power available.
January 21, 2011 at 7:44 pm #65027Andy Carson
ModeratorWith “horse sized” forces and slightly more advanced mechanical advantage, truly amazing things are possible! This thread reminds reminds me of other stump pullers designed for horses. I think many of these were side pull instead of verticle like the photo I have attached. I am not sure of the internal gearing in these, but I think some are worm-gear based. These might be a good option for those really heavy duty pulls.
By the way, if that sweep arm is 15 feet long (diameter of ~50 feet) and the threads are 3/4 of an inch per turn, the mechanical avantage on the stump puller in the photo is about 800:1. This means a fully loaded railroad car (100 tons) could be lifted vertically by a single horse exerting a 250 pound pull. This excludes friction, which would proably be important here… Either way, it’s pretty cool… I am sorry if this sidetracks the thread, I know it is supposed to be about pulleys, ropes, and more portable systems. I just wanted to show this example of something impressive mechanical advantage can do.
January 21, 2011 at 9:06 pm #65021ParticipantAs always, there is great information here – thanks for the input. Carl, regarding rope size, when you mentioned 5/8 bull rope in another post I looked up its strength and came up with an average of 10,000 lbs. With these synthetic ropes, strength varies greatly. So instead of talking about size, I think it is more accurate to talk strength. I don’t ever move more than 4,000 lbs with my horses (I think), so I figured that more than doubling the maximum working load would be sufficient. If you and others think it is insufficient, I will defer and go larger.
Also, I will have less than $100 invested in the snatch block (http://www.amazon.com/ProMark-Offroad-20k-capacity-Recovery/dp/B003NY0JBA/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t and rope http://cgi.ebay.com/Dacron-Dbl-Braid-Bull-line-rope-1-2-x-100-Hi-Vis-Yellow-/360301107744?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e39e9a20 – an investment that is not hard to justify given the its various uses.
Iron Rose, I found a picture of the bull hook http://media.photobucket.com/image/bull+hook+rope+/crwtimberframe/Z%2520misc/Tools/P2212286.jpg – very nifty.
George
January 21, 2011 at 11:13 pm #65017ModeratorThat sounds good to me George…. I can’t remember the specs on my ropes…. they may be similar to what you are talking about… I just remember getting the larger diameter rope for heavy loads, and the 1/2″ for climbing.
I like that set-up for the stump puller Andy.
Carl
December 6, 2011 at 9:20 pm #65022ParticipantAlmost a year later…..and I finally sprung for a snatch block / synthetic rope system. I logged with a 4WD tractor and winch for a number of years before I got horses. The only time I use the tractor/winch is to pull down trees my horses can’t get a hold of. I hung up a big hemlock (around 900 ft of logs in it), right in the ground. Horses couldn’t budge it and I decided to invest. Here’s what I got:http://www.ebay.com/itm/400241777494?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2242wt_952http://www.ebay.com/itm/400246549301?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2769wt_952
This is 5/16 rope with a minimum strength of 12,000 lbs. Snatch block is rated for 20k. I tried using a figure 8 to tie to my double tree and it bound so tight it took me 20 minutes to get it undone. I also tried a bowline on a bite with the same result. I took Iron Roses idea of a “bull hook” and ran with it. I works great. A couple of wraps, hook into my single/double tree and pull. Unwrap and I’m done. I think the aforementioned knots might work ok with larger rope, but not with this smaller diameter synthetic stuff. Here are some pics practicing on a smaller hemlock that is mildly hung up. In the “bull hook” picture, my finger is where I hook to my swivel/single tree. Some of you might be thinking this is one more thing to carry and get lost in the woods – I hear you, but when you need it, you really need it. The rope is so light I carry it on my hames and clip the bull hook on with a carabiner. I also serves as a great chain extender. Total investment – $130.
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[IMG]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-j3z4DYj5_EE/TtkbyD6QnkI/AAAAAAAABEA/BynRy5vugkM/s512/P1030495.JPG[/IMG]George
December 6, 2011 at 9:39 pm #65030jac
ParticipantOn the bowline issue George I usually double the rope up if I know its going to be a hard pull.. can usually get it out ..works for me…
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