DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Draft Animal Power › Oxen › Haha! Brilliant German Film
- This topic has 16 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 8 months ago by
mother katherine.
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- February 23, 2011 at 7:59 am #42483
Nat(wasIxy)
ParticipantBig fan of yvonne & co, and I just *had* to share their latest film! 😀
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUpWhPnxnvk&feature=player_embedded
February 23, 2011 at 12:02 pm #65909Rod
ParticipantYery neat, thanks.
February 23, 2011 at 12:23 pm #65924mother katherine
ParticipantSo great!! Am looking forward to when I can do some of that with my guys.
oxnunFebruary 23, 2011 at 6:30 pm #65913CharlyBonifaz
MemberI would not want to ride them at this age……
February 24, 2011 at 7:12 am #65912OldKat
ParticipantFebruary 24, 2011 at 9:12 am #65918fabian
ParticipantI thought about a little bit longer whether to give a respond in that thread.
Now I can not longer bear down.
The girls in the video think that they do someting good to their heifers/cows.
That’s a very human perception.
First of all they ride their heifers at a very young age. No horserider would ride a colt.
Second I do not think that bovines are natural galoppers.
And third I even more would not galopp a cow, which has a udder full of milk between the legs. Human females do use special bras for sports, but cows can not asks for that. They suffer quietly.
This girls decline in parts that heifers should get calves because of the pain they have in calving, but they do reflect not at all, whether they have pain while jumping over obstacles and long time galopping.
I had to say much about this theme, but my English ist not as well to say it so, that everything will be understood.
But there are enough bovine experts who regard riding of heifers in this way as an act of cruelty to animals.Wolfgang
February 24, 2011 at 9:30 am #65914MemberYours or theirs?
neither mine nor theirs
pretty much for Fabian’s reasons; I don’t mind riding bovines, but as in horses I should give it some thought before I do
young heifers are definitely the wrong choice, older heifers are pregnant in the last stages, with cows it depends on the breed (not all of them have 10 gallons of milk a day to produce), oxen are ok if their bones have pretty much ceased to grow, bulls 😉 well yes 😉February 24, 2011 at 5:12 pm #65919ParticipantI think anyone who thinks these cows ‘have pain’ through jumping or galloping has never tried to make an unwilling cow jump or gallop!
February 24, 2011 at 8:15 pm #65915Membersome of those young animals will not be in pain now, but they might very well have to pay for it later; I have seen too many cattle with chronic joint problems that lead to an early end; we try to prevent it by not pushing their weights to extremes while they are young – only to let them carry a rider?
I doubt there are numbers out for cattle as to the weight one leg has to sustain while landing after a jump; but there are numbers for horses were it has been measured on various occations (2,5 times their body’s weight);
may be it is just because I don’t know a single horse rider that would regularly ride one- or two year old horses like that, not to speak of jumping them…..
but you are right: Charly won’t make even a single step if he is not willing to 😀February 25, 2011 at 9:11 am #65920ParticipantThe same could be said of making them pull weights before they are Xyrs of age. People advocate having them yoked and pulling weight for comparitively long periods within months of birth. Mine never pull anything heavier than a tyre before 18months of age, but yes, I will sit on them for a few seconds, to get them used to the weight.
Talking about ‘natural’ when it comes to oxen is a waste of time IMO – after all, they were born with the natural ability to gallop and jump, not with ploughs and logs trailing behind them, and yokes sprouting from their necks 😉 . We’re happy to take them away from their mothers, castrate, dehorn, ring their noses, train their horn shape, use electric fences on them, train them to perform tasks for us, milk them and so on….and then we talk about ‘natural’?
Ibizza and all these cows look in far, far better condition than the majority of the cows I milk in commercial dairy herds that never get above walking pace!
Cruel is a very strong word.
February 25, 2011 at 3:33 pm #65910dominiquer60
ModeratorCharly,
The American Quarter Horse Association is full of horse trainers that ride long yearlings and two year old on a regular basis. There are even huge futurity classes with big prize money for 2 year olds. I am not saying that it is right, but there are parts of an “industry” built around it. Also look at the race horse industry, both flat and harness horses have 2 year old races.I suppose even though bovine do no appear as fluid or athletic as horses they could be conditioned over time to canter and have it not be too detrimental to their bodies. Heck I am not very athletic, but I know over time I can condition myself to do a 5k run.
My 2 year old heifer accepts me on her back in the barn, I look forward to being lazy now and then and hitching a ride in from the pasture on her or perhaps to check a fence line now and then. I will however, leave all the bells and whistles to those that have the time and desire.
Erika
February 25, 2011 at 4:55 pm #65921ParticipantBeing realistic, a little canter is nothing to a cow! We say they are not ‘athletic’ but yes, they are – they are still prey animals, and have been given the ability to run – cattle can beat a horse in a sprint, and look at the levels of athleticism cattlehorses have to reach in order to work them – isn’t that how reining was developed? Endurance – what about your longhorns being driven thousands of miles, 25m/day. Ours will happily pop gates taller than themselves if they want to, from a standing start!
Now, Angus hates jumping with a passion, but he managed to make this quite clear when he’d grown out of it – when younger, he’d jump loose alongside my brown swiss I was training, just to get a treat – but then one day, he’d gone off it and instead of jumping, kept crashing through the jump and nothing could persuade him to pick his feet up – how could I? They don’t even have a fear response to work with like a horse, I could’ve lit fireworks under his feet and beat him black and blue and I know for a fact he still wouldn’t have jumped! 😀
February 25, 2011 at 8:17 pm #65916MemberMine never pull anything heavier than a tyre before 18months of age, but yes, I will sit on them for a few seconds, to get them used to the weight.
ixy, since you are that careful with your own, how come you can’t see what I try to explain? I’m not even close to claiming cattle can’t gallop or jump (of course we know they can and will), I’m just questioning the decision of the girls to use these heifers at this age for this purpose
Also look at the race horse industry,
dominiquer60, I’ve been working in the race horse industry, we had a saying: do you want to own a horse for many years or do you want him in the derby (a race for 3 year olds)?
My 2 year old heifer accepts me on her back in the barn
perfectly fine, but the heifers ridden in the video are younger; in Germany usually they come down with their first calf around their 2nd birthday – as I said, I would not want to ride (not just sit on for training effects) them that young or in that condition
also I would not want to work a cow with a 10-gallon-milk-a-day-udder in the woods
all I’m trying to ensure is, that before I use an animal for any purpose I make sure it will be fine with it in the long runhe still wouldn’t have jumped!
ixy out of plain curiosity: how old was he then?
my ox has decided the opposite: he always walked through a creek on our way, stopping in the middle of the water to take a sip; out of the blue he decided to jump it (big jump 😮 ) and has ever since…no way to try that trick with a loaded wagon or a log behind him……February 25, 2011 at 9:49 pm #65911ModeratorCharly,
I agree with you, there are a lot of animals in many industries that get pushed hard young, not really my cup of tea. But I sure like to have them trained young, makes it a lot easier on everyone when the time comes to do some real work.I wasn’t really trying to compare my heifer to those in the video, just saying that the thought is interesting enough to entertain a little at home, but I have no serious interest in training bovines to ride like that.
Certainly a 10 gallon a day cow is not meant for the woods, or to last long as a dairy cow either. A neighbor down the road here used to milk cows, he said that they didn’t really hit their prime milking until 9-10 years old. He never pushed, never asked for 10 gallons a day, he said that type of cow doesn’t last long. With many enterprises slow and steady can get the job done, time and time again and with any luck, for many years.
Erika
February 26, 2011 at 8:55 am #65922ParticipantAge of Angus when he gave up jumping? Can’t remember exactly but between 18months and 2yrs I think? Angus is a biiiiiig heavy animal though, no wonder he doesn’t want to jump 😀 I do however have my heifer Peach and think she should retain better activity levels longer…whether we’ll jump I doubt as I’m not too keen on it myself! But I think she will take more riding for longer.
The udder is a problem no doubt, I still debate whether to breed Peach or not and then whether to hand milk/let her rear the calf. At the end of the day she might develop a big udder no matter what, and if it seems to hurt her, we’ll call it a day. Ibizza is in such good condition though and has a nice udder so far – she looks much better than most of the cows I milk, despite her workload! Amazing, really, perhaps a tribute to german holstein breeding?
I didn’t think you were questioning whether cows could run and jump charly, just urging everyone to think on a bit about what cows are capable of in general – they’re not always the slow, dopey lumps we think in our modern age of them loafing in barns and being transported in trucks everywhere 😀
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