chronic bolter?

Now what? Personal opinion is that things happen. They are the team you have and I would keep working with them. Don’t know the extent of their training but they are young still. Can you trust them? Trusting them is up to you, certainly not now, but the real problem here is them not accepting and respecting you and quite possibly they don’t trust you either. I don’t think all is lost though. How long have you had them, a few weeks? Are you expecting to much too soon? Give it time. You will probably be able to assert leadership and gain their respect when you put enough time and repetitions into them. Bad behavior shouldn’t be excused or tolerated, but… Are you giving up on them? Keep up investing in them, build on what you know and the three of you should be fine.

Sounds like you’ve got the ground work right but it sounds like they need a heavier load to get their attention. At their age sweat won’t hurt them. It depends on how much spare time you have to work with them but resistance makes the sessions shorter and more beneficial. Load your stoneboat with rocks or some other ballast but don’t overdo the weight. Just enough to get their attention and tire them out during your training sessions. This will give you quicker results as long as they are willing to pull it . Keep working on the ground work also to build trust and confidence but when you work them work them until they are tired and stand quietly. Above all be safe and good luck!

Tim is right. There are a lot of good horses out there. Drop dead broke teams.
My dad had a saying “remember, you ain’t married to them”. Meaning don’t waste your time on a troublemaking horse .
You could get a good pair of horses and have them for twenty years and hook them every day.
but I’m wondering about the experience you might miss out on with these two horses. Sounds like they are trouble, so you can’t screw them up anymore than they already are. You don’t have to worry about that. If you could find some good help and wrap your mind around figuring out a way to keep them from killing you or someone else, hook them to something that required a little effort, (a scoot in deep snow, or a harrow in loose soil were good) and work them til they were so tired they didn’t have energy to screw with you, and do it again tomorrow, and the next day until they showed up so tired, you knew you got them. You might learn more in that week than in the twenty years you had the good broke team. Just don’t get killed.
having some good help is key. somebody who’s seen horses like them before. maybe they aren’t as bad as you might think. good luck with your project

🙂@sickle hocks 26561 wrote:

Screwed up yesterday and had a runaway. I don’t really know the history of the team, they drove ok when I saw them but had terrible ground manners, but I could afford them. The guy who trained them couldn’t really walk anymore, so I think the real hand trained them on the driving and his help did the rest of the work. Not a lot of foundation. Holes.
“Hats”…

5 year old. When he got here…He is the lowest in pecking order. Nervous disposition, inclined to shy and spook. Disrespectful and pushy, almost aggressive, on the ground. Stiff. Head in sky for haltering / bridling. Very poor with foot handling and stuff around his hocks, especially right hind. Spooky about dragging things. Unwilling to yield to person, and tended to get angry when asked to yield…very reluctant to accept leadership. Bolted when being led a few times but I held him and got his head around.

After a few weeks…Yields nicely on ground, and will drop head even when nervous. Can hold all four feet, haven’t got right hind relaxed enough to trim yet. Still nervous at start of sessions, but settles down. Will look to me for guidance when he gets panicky. Not aggressive and pushy anymore. Drops head for halter, still takes time to get head down for bridle. Has an excellent ‘whoa’ just off the voice (in round pen).

“Doc”…

4 year old. When he got here….He is the boss horse. Much less nervous. Also much less pushy and aggressive. Stiff. Head in sky even worse than the other for for bridle or halter. Quicker than ‘Hats’ to be submissive, less angry when asked to yield. Bad bolt when leading. He surprised me the first time and got away from me.

After a few weeks…yields, polite on ground, more reluctant to drop head for me while leading (although will bow nicely in round pen). Pretty good with feet. He bolted a second time on lead and blew me over…he got hung up in brush and stood while I untangled, led him straight to round pen and worked on ‘whoa’. I don’t like having to use it and I’ll get flamed here for mentioning it but I put him in a war bridle for that session of ‘whoa’ work right after the bolt. Asked with voice, insisted with bridle, released immediately on the stop. Got him stopping nicely off just the voice and a bit of body movement. Led back out in paddock, he tried the bolt seven or eight times and actually bolted through the war bridle and got away once (but was unsuccessful the last times he tried) He is being lead everywhere in the war bridle right now but it is just hanging there with no pressure, just in case he tries to pull the bolt again, which he hasn’t for a week or so.

As a team…ground driving well in round pen. Excellent whoa off voice. Pulling stone boat around round pen, turns in both directions. A little excited at times but pretty good.

I screwed up. Drove them out of round pen into paddock. Runaway. I came off the stoneboat. Cross checks through hame rings. I know I should have had a preventer. They ran a few hundred yards maybe. Stopped in corner of fence. Said whoa. Unhitched. They were shaky but stood ok. Led back to round pen. Ran stoneboat back with truck. Ground drove right away. Hitched up. Drove stone boat around round pen until it was boring. Led them around the paddock in harness. Quit.

Now what?? I’m sorry I’m just not sure which horse started the bolt, I suspect Doc though, but Hats would panic when things got scary. I think I’m dealing with some chronic issues, but I’m not entirely sure. Anyway, I’m going to go out and hitch and drive them around the pen now a bunch at minimum.

Not expecting any answers, but maybe some insights or thoughts if you got em…I’m pretty much in the non resistance training camp, but when it gets to this i start thinking about the targeted and precise use of w’s and things like that…(flame away..) Can I ever trust these guys?

thanks
ps i’ve mentioned some pretty hard stuff here but i am also working slowly and gently and building trust and confidence so don’t think i’m a brute, ok?

As far as using a war bridle, all the “experts” use the theory; use as little force as possible, but as much as necessary to safely get a proper response. Sounds like you are doing things very well; keep it up…Doc

Could you use a set of “cheater” lines? Single lines on the “bolter” in addition to the regular team lines. They’re an awesome training aid at times and can help get things lined out or keep a situation from getting out of control without having to be harsh on the other horse.
Horses have an amazing memory…. it’d be really interesting to know everything that goes through that mind…. We’ve got a big Percheron gelding that was abused years ago, and it was a long road to get him to the point he is today. One thing about getting that far is that when it finally “clicks”, it’s worth it….in many ways.
John