DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Equipment Category › Equipment › Trucks on a wood beam disk
- This topic has 14 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 7 months ago by
mitchmaine.
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- April 11, 2012 at 7:07 pm #43724
grey
ParticipantI acquired a nice disk that just needed some love. Replaced the old rotted wood beam and rummaged up a set of trucks that I thought would work.
Now I’m not so sure about the trucks. I’ve uploaded several photos of the things. I’m wondering specifically about the beam cup. I don’t know what the trucks were off of, originally, but they sure look like a set of IH trucks from maybe the 20’s. I’ve never seen a beam cup like this. Do you think it would work for a wood beam or was it designed for a steel beam? I’m going to have to cut the beam down to fit it in this cup.
The square holes at the back of the cup (closest to the driver) are 3″ O.C.
The cup itself is 3 1/4″ wide.
There’s a piece of strap iron that I imagine was intended to go to the bottom of the beam.Does this look like a substantial-enough cup to attach a 2-horse disk harrow with a wood beam?
April 11, 2012 at 7:08 pm #73403ParticipantHere are some photos that show the entirety of the trucks. Still need a bar for the tongue.
April 11, 2012 at 7:31 pm #73404ParticipantIf someone has a copy of Lynn’s Tillage Tools, I’d be much obliged if you could see if there is an example of that kind of cup shown somewhere.
April 12, 2012 at 1:14 am #73415mitchmaine
Participantnot sure you need a tongue. we never use them with a set of harrows on trucks. loose rigging. the harrows have resistance enough to stay in place. great looking trucks. clamp them on the best you can and they will follow the evener. mitch
April 12, 2012 at 1:29 am #73410Andy Carson
ModeratorOK, I’ll bite… I would certainly put that truck on the front of any disc I have used, I have gotten away with alot weaker wheels. I do, however, share you concern about the small attachment point. That strap of steel is a big clue. It definately looks like it didn’t come with the truck. I suspect it was added to keep the truck from rocking forward on whatever it was attached to before. From the looks of this truck, pulling from that bottom ring would put some strong forces on the rear and/or front of the cup, and how strong these are is going to depend on alot of other geometry. That strap says to me that they are strong enough to cause some rocking, it may rock a little even with the strap. That said, if if was me, I would probably try it with a wooden beam (with the strap attached too) and just see how it goes. One of the really nice things about working with wood is that mistakes and miscalculations aren’t expensive or difficult to fix. It’s one of the things that has kept me in wood for a lot of what I make, at least for the parts that aren’t high wear. Good luck!
April 12, 2012 at 1:35 am #73411ModeratorOK, I’ll bite… I would certainly put that truck on the front of any disc I have used, I have gotten away with alot weaker wheels. I do, however, share you concern about the small attachment point. That strap of steel is a big clue. It definately looks like it didn’t come with the truck. I suspect it was added to keep the truck from rocking forward on whatever it was attached to before. From the looks of this truck, pulling from that bottom ring would put some strong forces on the rear and/or front of the cup, and how strong these are is going to depend on alot of other geometry. That strap says to me that they are strong enough to cause some rocking, it may rock a little ever with the strap. That said, if if was me, I would probably try it with a wooden beam (with the strap attached too) and just see how it goes. One of the really nice things about working with wood is that mistakes and miscalculations aren’t expensive or difficult to fix. It’s one of the things that has kept me in wood for a lot of what I make, at least for the parts that aren’t high wear. Good luck!
April 12, 2012 at 6:52 am #73405ParticipantYeah, but it’s a good white oak stick! It was left over from making a plow beam. Overkill but it’s what I had.
April 12, 2012 at 10:48 am #73416Participantthe more i stare at your peices, the more i want to clamp the beam in under the cup. i see the cast brace underneath, but the look of the cup seems to make it the outside and not the inside. the slot looks like it could work as a hanging clamp of some kind.
the horizontal hole on the very top might have been for a peice of iron rod bent to fix the pole to. can’t make out what the shackle is for at the bottom of the hitch. interesting puzzle. good luck with it. mitchApril 12, 2012 at 1:17 pm #73412ModeratorI think I would still attach on top to the cup (if you are going to be using simple bolts & washers) or the bottom if you are going to make a plate to make a steel “sandwich” around the beam. Of the two, the sandwich is definately stronger, for a couple reasons. Reguarding simple bolts, I believe attaching the beam to the top (in the cup) will be stronger because any verticle forces resulting from pulling on low shackle would hinge around the front of the cup (assuming the big peice of wood here is not compressable). This would act as a case 1 lever to try to pull the bolts though the beam at the rear of the cup with a force that is roughly the same as the verticle force applied at the shackle (the distance from the front of the cup to the shackle looks about the same as the distance from from of the cup to the back of the cup). Perhaps this is why there are some many bolts holes back there? If you attach the beam to the bottom of the cup with simple bolts, verticle forces at the shackle will likely hinge at the rear of the cup, acting as a class 2 lever, and apply roughly twice the verticle force to pull bolts though the beam at the front of the cup. If you make a steel plate to sandwich the beam, it if difficult to know if the beam would hinge on the front or the rear of the cup, at both sides have spread the force over alot of wood. In this case, I think the beam with the most wood would be the strongest, and you can make a wider beam if you don’t ahev to carve it doen to fuit the cup. In the end, I think I would make a steel plate and attach the beam to the bottom, unless that placement gets in the way of the wheels when turning. It’s probably overkill, but it seems nearly as easy as other approaches. If it gets in the way of the wheels, however, attaching to the top of the cup with a steel plate is very close.
April 12, 2012 at 4:23 pm #73406ParticipantI believe the clevis would only be used if you were hitching multiple teams deep. You’d run a chain back to the clevis, I think, from the lead team. The evener attaches to that sort of pinch-looking bracket above the clevis. There is a sleeve and a set screw at the very top of the trucks. The set screw allows you to slide your tongue bar over for hooking three. I have considered putting the beam below the cup. Cut a notch to allow that diagonal brace under the cup to be recessed into the beam. But I will probably use a plate on top of the beam and set it in the cup. Haven’t committed, though. Still hemming and hawing.
April 12, 2012 at 11:48 pm #73407ParticipantHm, just had an interesting conversation with a friend that I had emailed photos of the trucks to… he believes there was a top plate for the cup that interlocked with those slots on the sides in some fashion. There would have been holes that were mates to some of the holes in the bottom of the cup. I think I am going to fashion a plate out of 1/4″ steel for the top of the beam and sandwich it in there. Any more thoughts on the subject, please don’t hesitate to jump in. I’ll post photos of the finished product.
April 13, 2012 at 1:26 pm #73413ModeratorInteresting… I think that makes sense. Any theories on why that strap was added? Possibly only to overcome the torque from using that bottom shackle in a 4-up team? I think you are right that if you use the bracket, this shouldn’t be a problem. You might want to line things up and see if you are going to be able to use that top bracket and remain close to the best line of draft. If it is far above the theoretical best line of draft for your implement, it is going to drive the truck down onto the ground, which seems wasteful and unnecessary. If this is the case, it could be compensated for by a longer beam, but at some point this gets difficult to turn with very long beams. On the discs I made/modified, I liked having the attachment point just a little bit below the theoretical line best line of draft. That bring the nose up a inch or so every now and then, but this is power that is recovered when the front drops back down and I feel a lift (rather than a downward press) was easier on the equipment. I suppose in a perfect world the attachment point would always be precisely in line with the true line of draft, but in real world situations with variations in terraign, I chose to err on the side that I view as better.
It might be that someone was using that bottom shackle to remain truw to the line of draft, even though the truck was designed to use the upper bracket. This would also explain the addition of the steel strap…
April 13, 2012 at 3:58 pm #73408ParticipantI think that when I’m up on the seat of the disk, very little weight will ride on the trucks. I think I will use that strap iron that’s on there also. Can’t hurt, I don’t think.
April 13, 2012 at 7:13 pm #73414Moderator@grey 34195 wrote:
I think that when I’m up on the seat of the disk, very little weight will ride on the trucks.
I am sure you are right, but that’s not what I’m getting at. Imagine drawing a straight line from the tugs back the bottom of the disc where the drag is the greatest. Is the attachment point above of below that imaginary line? If the attachment point is not in line with the true line of draft, the front wheels will be drawn up or forced down when the animals pull. If the attachment point is high and the beam is short, the downward force from the pull could be substantial.
April 13, 2012 at 9:34 pm #73409ParticipantOh, okay, I see what you’re saying. Yeah, if the point of hitch deviates significantly from the natural line of draft it could present a significant amount of torque on that cup. I’ll have to do some figuring before I cut my beam down to length.
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