DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Draft Animal Power › Horses › Help for halting
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- April 19, 2012 at 6:26 pm #43736
Thecowboysgirl
ParticipantBoth my ponies will stand tied till the cows come home, will halt and stand while leading no problem.
Ground driving, they will both “whoa” with very little rein pressure. But a few seconds later, they both want to walk off, and when I try to stop them, it turns into a back and forth mess. If I can’t go forward, I’ll go sideways sort of thing.
Any advice to teach them to stand still?
I can sometimes get an okay halt out of either of them, sometimes a total mess.
I feel I should not hook them to anything if I can’t get them to stand still. Is this correct?
How to correct swinging butt from side to side? I tried tapping with the whip and the geldling had a fit. I guess that was a mistake. It certainly didn’t help.
I am shopping for a harness now, finally! Is it a mistake to ground drive them in a team harness if I can’t get a good longer halt out of them single?
April 21, 2012 at 10:19 am #73476Donn Hewes
KeymasterThere are a lot of different approaches to this question. I think the answer lies in a little bit of subtlety. The animals don’t stand because they are not relaxed. Continuing to ask them to stand will not make them relax. Let them move long enough, and far enough, preferable while doing something will help them to relax. It is a little bit of a two way answer because you want them to know what the word whoa means (which I think they already do), but you can’t keep going fifty feet and testing them to see how long they will stand. There are many different views on this, but I believe that horses are taught to stop and stand initially and then continue to improve at this critical skill as you work with them. Yes, hook them to a small log (10′ by 8″ or bigger or smaller, bigger than a fence post) and let them walk a good while. Then they will learn to stop and stand. Correcting fidgeting is the same way. You do want to correct these things, but you can’t just take a horse and repeat your self over and over, “don’t do that, don’t do that” again get them moving. I prefer to hook my new animals to something by themselves first and drive a few times single. Then put them together as a team when both are going well. Just my two cents.
April 21, 2012 at 4:49 pm #73483ParticipantDonn,
The biggest thing that unnerves these two is being apart from each other. Am I wrong to think that putting them together might help?
they have both pulled a tire single a lot. The mare is still jumpy about noises behind her. She will settle after ten minutes or so of walking.
I am in the process of buying team harness & forecart. Husband is willing to build me a sled, too, so they don’t wreck an expensive forecart if we have a bumpy start.
It is getting pretty hot here midday, I have half a mind to put them in the team harness, ground drive them around their pasture in the sun and then ask them to take a break under their favorite shade tree. I bet that might get the message across. Thought I might to the same with the sled except make sure they would REALLY like to get in the shade before I let them go under there.
They definitely know what whoa means. They just don’t want to stand still all by themselves. The gelding is either trying to turn around and come back to me, or wanting to go to her, whichever one of us is closer.
I probably got obsessed with the halt and made it worse by drilling it, too….when what they really need is to move more…
April 21, 2012 at 10:21 pm #73482wvhorsedoc
ParticipantJuliana, I was having the same problem couple years ago including driving, trimming feet, harnessing, etc. Someone suggested I work them single and every time they started their little dance, put a 30+ lead rope on them and lunge them for 8 or 10 rounds, then go back to whatever I was doing. Keep cool and never seem upset about their dancing…Within a couple weeks they decided they really liked to stand still, and to this day they remember their lessons well. Hope this idea may help. I’m sorry I don’t remember who to give credit for helping me.
April 22, 2012 at 12:27 am #73489Anonymous
Inactivedont forget horses, especially ponies, can read our minds. If you know in your mind that they will stand then they will, and if you think they wont then they wont. Having a 1 year old daughter has helped me learn that and translate it to working with the animals.
Jared
April 22, 2012 at 10:43 am #73477KeymasterYou can all ways hook them together and see how they do. Being together may help them relax but it also makes it harder for them to pay attention to you. You said, “The gelding is either trying to turn around and come back to me, or wanting to go to her, whichever one of us is closer.” This is what you will have to work against when you hook them together. On the collars I highly recommend an adjustable collar. I have several times bought a collar that didn’t fit just as I wanted. 5 out of 6 of my collars are adjustable right now and I get a good fit and good wear out of them. If you don’t get and adjustable collar remember to leave an inch at the bottom for them to breath. With a collar that is big enough you can use the hames and hames straps to make it wider or narrower where you need it.
April 22, 2012 at 1:31 pm #73484ParticipantJared- I KNOW they can read my mind!!! And react to my emotions/attitude, so why can’t I remember that when I’m working them!? I have been just totally overwhelmed lately, two goats in milk, last class before graduation with my bachelor’s, trying to get my nonprofit off the ground and my two teenagers who are in the height of hormonal rampage.
All of my animals, including the ponies are suffering the brunt of my sleep-deprived over-extended lack of patience. Sorry, way more information than anyone probably wanted to know.
I keep trying to decide if I should just quit trying to do anything with the ponies till I graduate in 7 weeks but I don’t want them to sit that long.
Donn I am glad to hear you like the adjustable collars. I thought I wanted to try them but heard less than glowing review on one of the rural heritage videos I bought.
I was thinking of putting them in the team harness and maybe having my husband have hold of a lead line on the one who seems less trustworthy that day. He is good moral support for me so I would be more confident plus maybe he could help me be sure nothing got out of hand. I would probably put him on the mare because she’s nervier and she likes him. The gelding doesn’t like my husband so well, he only has eyes for me.
April 22, 2012 at 5:01 pm #73490InactiveI have always used working with the horses as an excuse to ignore all of life’s stress. For me if I dont empty my mind and focus on the job at hand then the work wont get done with horses, they force me to zone out and relax… I would keep working with your horses as long as it is good for you it will be good for them.
Jared
April 23, 2012 at 5:00 pm #73478grey
ParticipantI have had a few adjustable collars over the years and I always end up selling them at some point, or trading them away. Having said that, however, I somehow keep ending up with one now and again.
I don’t like that the hame bed kind of peters out up at the top of the collar, where the adjustable cap rides. I also don’t like the fact that there is only one optimal setting with an adjustable collar. The draft of the collar – the widest point of the collar, where you want the traces to press – is situated relative to the overall length of the collar. It is proportionate. A longer/larger collar will have the draft placed more centimeters from the throat of the collar than a smaller collar. So while you can make your adjustable collar longer or shorter, the location of the draft remains static.
It is the same with hames, however, and we all generally manage to get by with that. Most people in the U.S. are using tubular steel farm hames with an adjustable rachet at the top and non-adjustable draft. There *are* hames that have adjustable draft, but most people manage without that feature.
But the truth remains that there is an optimal setting with both the hames and the adjustable collar. There is optimal and then there is a wider swath of “functional”. Drawing the line between the two will depend entirely on the individual and the situation. I’ve got a mare that is on the bottom rachet of her hames. 90% of the time this is just fine, but after a round of plowing a little earlier this spring, she came up with a sore spot because the draft was too high on her shoulder. I find that spring plowing and our mid-summer wagon train is where collar and hame fit is proven for me. So it’s time to swap her hames out for a smaller set.
An adjustable collar can be a rather handy thing to have around, especially if you have a horse that is just getting into work. Their neck can change size/shape dramatically. My own preference, however, is to have a few sizes of collar to chose from, rather than adjustables.
I have recently come to accept that not all adjustables are created equal. I have primarily used Broadhead adjustables but I did have an adjustable Badger that was pretty darn nice. I do kind of regret letting that one go. As adjustables went, it was nice. But then, Badger collars are just a cut above.
As for standing patiently after the whoa, I completely agree with what Donn offered. Trying to coerce them into standing still by nagging at them will just increase their nervous energy. There are many ways to come at it, but keep in mind that if you feed energy into the situation (whether by line movement, voice, or just your thoughts) it will degenerate. See if you can bleed that energy off. You can work it off, divert it, or avoid getting the energy into the horses in the first place. If you can find a way to leave your baggage at the gate, that can help tremendously.
Edited to add: are you using a butt rope to keep them from turning inside-out on you?
April 23, 2012 at 5:31 pm #73485ParticipantRe:Collars…we have a very limited budget and have to order everything from far away. There is no local source for harness stuff around here. And the ponies are coming off a two year early retirement to do this job for me so yes, I think they are likely to change shape.
What about ordering a pair of adjustable collars to get them started and then hopefully next year when the money situation isn’t so tight, and they are fit, could possibly order them a regular collar in one size? If I order a single size and it doesn’t fit, I’ll have to pay shipping to return it, and shipping again on the new one, and I’ll wind up eating my harness budget before getting stuff that works, I’m afraid.
Thanks everyone for the input on halting. I know from past experience just exactly what everyone means about the energy and thought patterns in the situation where horse/human feed off each other. I know how to go forward with it. I am going to start by putting them both back in the roundpen for some fun relationship building first because I regrettably lost my temper with them last time. not that I beat the crap out of them or anything but I definitely lost my cool and they knew it and we all felt terrible. It will be good anti-stress therapy for me to get over myself and make it work for them lol.
No butt rope- I am still driving them single in a home made contraption of surcingle/breast plate/ home made pvc shafts to pull a tire etc. I have heard arguments for and against butt ropes training teams- what is the concensus on here?
April 23, 2012 at 5:36 pm #73486ParticipantHopefully that link works…this is where I am looking at purchasing harness, collars and forecart from. Any opinions? I have no way of knowing if this is quality stuff or not…the only definite criteria I have is that my harness must be bio or nylon
April 23, 2012 at 6:43 pm #73479ParticipantWell, if you are ground-driving them as a team and they fidget enough to where you have to be concerned that they are going to turn inside-out on you, they will feel that concern. If you take away that risk, you remove some of the worry and thus some of the energy. If they fidget and swing their butts out, you are forced to respond to keep the situation safe and it is not an option to just relax and let them fuss around. You have to get on their case and straighten them up or things get unsafe. A butt rope will help keep them in line without you having to worry at them.
It is a little trickier to rig up a butt rope if you don’t have collars and hames on them, but I bet you can cobble something up.
April 23, 2012 at 6:49 pm #73480ParticipantI think it is important for people to understand that when we lose our temper with our horses, we let them down. We disappoint them. They have expectations for us, just as we have for them. Letting the horses down reduces their belief in our leadership skills and it takes much longer to build their confidence back up afterward.
And when I say “we” and “us”, I am including myself in those pronouns. I still struggle with anger and frustration at times, humbling as that is to admit.
Fortunately for us humans, horses do have an amazing capacity for forgiveness.
April 23, 2012 at 8:39 pm #73487ParticipantRe: losing temper & losing horse’s confidence: Agreed 🙁 I did ask my husband if he would come and help me with them when I start them in the harness. He can be an extra set of hands, opinion, and moral support so things don’t go south.
I am going to only do easier things where we are sure to succeed and be happy until the harness comes.
Re: Buttrope, I will try it the first time I hook them in the team harness. I am not going to try to drive them double w/my homemade nonsense
April 24, 2012 at 4:03 am #73481karl t pfister
ParticipantWow , alot going on there , Alot of good suggestions too. My 2 cents is the round pen, it’s is a great place to work on standing . The standing has to be totally your choice . Doc Hammill advertised in The Small Farm Journal some videos about this Others too don Lyons ,Ciinton Anderson,Buck Branaman . There are 2 parts to standing #1 is visualizing them standing as you ask for a halt .breath #2 anticipating
how long they might stand . If you think they can only last 5 seconds then ask them to stand 3 secs then ask them to go repeat 1 to 2 million times. asking them to go before they decide they can’t stay, even if the ratio is halt 1 sec then go is in 1/2sec,got to start somewhere Remember movement is survival to them and standing
still is being a” sitting duck ” If they don’t have confidence in your leadership they need to react as nature tells them.
Have fun . do they join up with you in the round pen?ala Monty Roberts style Be happy with whatever goes right don’t worry ,reward for attempts. As Grey said,” they have the capacity for forgiveness ” best of luck - AuthorPosts
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