Oxen and all things -Facebook

For me Facebook seems to be a necessary evil. Our farm has directly benefited from the free advertising and marketing oppurtunities it allows, but I would rather not have it at all honestly. DAP net, however remains a place to get real information, mentorship and comraderie concerning draft animals. And I agree with Tim, sometimes I want to ditch the new fangled technology all together, but unfortunately I still need to learn more from my virtual neighbors since none of my actual neighbors farm, or farm with draft.

I know some folks have a difficult time conveying some of their thoughts in a civil and respectful manner and someone has to make the call on that. With the exception of one or two instances that I am aware of, that has not been an issue on this site. I am not familiar with the instances you are referring to Droverone so I can’t comment on that. I know there are draft animal sites where I have greatly curtailed my use because of the tone and content of frequent contributors. For me, with FB, I just can’t ditch the feeling that time on FB is wasted time that I can never get back. Bad attitude, I know, just can’t get over that hump. To each their own. Time here has value to me.

@Countymouse 36679 wrote:

…… To some extent, we are preaching to the choir on this site, which is something I think about from time to time…..

Who else can you preach to. I am so friggin’ bored with trying to open other people’s eyes. I love sharing with people who are enthused and engaged. I have a huge problem with FB precisely because there are so many people coming to the table that you can’t help but have a watered down discussion.

There is no other site like this one, as far as detailed discussion of the aspects of working draft animals. But I gotta say it isn’t magic. We worked hard in the beginning to create a site that set a high bar and sought contributors who would post pertinent information….. and we have had to send a few (less than 10) packing because of bad behavior….. but we never censored or edited a single post (even the nasty ones…we just dealt with them).

But those early trials were used as learning opportunities, and I am very proud of how you all have worked to maintain the level of serious and respectful interaction.

Carl

I am certainly not advocating that the content of this site change. I think this site is wonderful and plays as essential role in mentoring, continued learning, documentation of traditional practices and techniques, as well as introduction of new practices and techniques. My concern, which is only something I think about from time to time, is if this site alone is sufficient for attracting new draft animal users. I think that if someone wants to know more about draft animals, and is serious about them, google inevitable leads them to this site. I wonder, though, about the people who might not have even thought to ask… Perhaps some level of public participation and general visibility is appropriate so that some people will be curious enough to “check it out.” This might sound ridiculous to some people, but oxen were very much “off my radar” for a long time. It they weren’t generally visible at a few events I went to for other reasons, I might not have given them a chance. I do not know if facebook is the best forum for this, and suspect it is not. I am disappointed to hear that rural heritage might not be either, as I have expected this would be another great forum to gain some visibility. I understand that these types of interactions can be very frustrating (Droverone), personally unrewarding (Tim), and/or boring (Carl), and I have experienced this too. Despite the annoyance, I still think that it is important to have some (possible low) level of interaction with the general public, even if all it does is get slightly interested parties to do some searching to learn more about it. Keeping a practice alive requires some mechanism to attract young people to carry the knowledge into the future. Again, I am not advocating that the focus of this site should change its focus towards attracting young people in exclusion of any of the other things we do. I am just thinking that if might not be best if individuals shy away from public forums either. I understand that getting into long drawn out discussions on tired subjects that have already been discussed is time consuming and frustrating. One approach when faced with a situation like this would be to write something like “There are many opinions on this topic and it has been discussed at length on DAP (post link).” I would hope this is polite enough to not be deleted, and brings interested parties to DAP and to a complete discussion of the issue/topic at hand without the DAP member getting too frustrated or bored by having to rewrite thoughts.

For me the quality of this forum shines through the cumbersome media of the Internet. I am no expert in web forums but the few I have been on (but I have never joined any except this one) have not had the level of discussion, sharing and intimacy that I see here. I quickly tire of antique tractor or truck forums, and even other livestock based forums (Facebook being a completely different beast). It is important to remember that the strength of this “place” is the people. In the almost year since I started ease dropping in on these converstions I have become a devoted adherent to this forum and talk about it with everybody else who is actually around me, and that is the best thing I can do to promote the exchange of information regarding draft animals. I feel that we (the people) are the way that we can best interact with the general public and promote our craft.

I too am really interested in what about pulling oxen competitions are doing for the overall world of oxen driving. I am very seperated from the North East draft world, and therefore ignorant to the culture of draft animals of all types in what is certainly a main hub of draft based activity in the US. Droverone what is your opinion about competitive oxen pulling and what is it doing to oxen driving as a whole?

@Countymouse 36684 wrote:

I am certainly not advocating that the content of this site change. I think this site is wonderful and plays as essential role in mentoring, continued learning, documentation of traditional practices and techniques, as well as introduction of new practices and techniques. My concern, which is only something I think about from time to time, is if this site alone is sufficient for attracting new draft animal users. I think that if someone wants to know more about draft animals, and is serious about them, google inevitable leads them to this site. I wonder, though, about the people who might not have even thought to ask… Perhaps some level of public participation and general visibility is appropriate so that some people will be curious enough to “check it out.” …..

Andy, I am very pleased that you are a new member of the DAPNet board…..

I also think that pulling and showing, while not usually done by people who are actually working their animals, also serves us well in a larger context. I have no tolerance for competitive showmanship, but I find most draft animal people to have some appreciation for the craft. It isn’t up to us to dismiss the poor examples set by others, it is up to us to set better examples, for the public, as well as for those pullers and showers who may inadvertently be watering down our efforts.

I actually think that the working draft community has swollen in the last 20 years…. in fact I know it has, despite all odds against us. Of course the pulls and plowing matches, and carriage classes get way more attention, but I don’t think they get many spectators who actually think they might do that some day. On the other hand, I know that a majority of the folks who come to workshops relating to performing real work with draft animals are serious about trying it out. It may be a small group, but there is a much higher retention rate.

As far as novices on this site….. if you go to the “Quick Links” drop-down menu at the top of the page sometime, then to “Who’s Online”, you will see many more visitors who are not logged in then there are those logged in. I think that many viewers are satisfied to lurk and just read what is being written here. A good way to engage those folks is for administrators, or other interested members, to start more discussion threads, post more provocative topics, use more of the many categories that are set up on this forum……. Believe me I know that it takes a lot of time, but it can be done (I have over 2500 posts to my name as a result).

This is a great site, but we may have been idling for a while. There is a strong core group here that could take Andy’s comments to heart and use this site more aggressively to develop community, as well as keeping alive the reason we keep coming here, to learn from each other. Some times all we have time for is to read a few posts, and to post or reply to a pertinent thread. If we want to continue to breath fresh life into this forum and the surrounding community, then we may need to stretch a little bit more time, and ramp up the volume, and broaden the content…….

Carl