DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Draft Animal Power › Oxen › "Old Partner"
- This topic has 18 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 11 months ago by KellyandKatie.
- AuthorPosts
- December 18, 2012 at 4:53 pm #44312December 19, 2012 at 12:53 am #76264Tim HarriganParticipant
thanks, Andy. That was very good.
December 19, 2012 at 4:56 am #76272efdgoonParticipantThat was very good. Thanks for sharing.
December 19, 2012 at 3:10 pm #76273Kevin CunninghamParticipantAndrew, you mention on your blog that you can get this on DVD with subtitles. I will never be able to stream video that long with my satellite internet. I am going into town today so I am going to try and get it there. Where do you get that DVD if anyone is interested?
December 19, 2012 at 8:35 pm #76277OxhillParticipantI don’t have the DVD yet but it is advertised with English subtitles. Bestbuy.com and Amazon.com both have it. I don’t know what brick and mortars would carry it.
December 20, 2012 at 1:09 pm #76276AnonymousInactiveThanks Andy, I really enjoyed watching it.
December 20, 2012 at 1:56 pm #76265Andy CarsonModeratorI enjoyed the video a lot too. Thanks for posting Andy. One of the things that sticks out to me when I watch international videos of people working oxen is just how common it is to have some sort of nose control. I notice is it usually not used heavily on trained animals (as in the video), but it is still there if needed. I can only guess it was used during training of younger or more energetic animals at some point. Perhaps like the curb settings on a horse bit… In the American tradition, these rings seem to be used primarily for bulls. I wonder if they have a place in training, to be used sparingingly and only when needed, and moved away from ASAP.
December 20, 2012 at 3:42 pm #76270DroveroneParticipantIt has got to be some east Asian practice because you rarely see it practiced anywhere else, oh no I’m incorrect, you an also see it when people think they need to drive cattle with reins because after 40 years of working cattle, and I don’t mean “old partner” , they cannot learn to train cattle to be driven from behind without reins and nose clamps!
Maybe andy can get his father to teach a short course on driving oxen from behind without reins !
December 20, 2012 at 6:57 pm #76266Andy CarsonModeratorYou see these nose control devices all over the world, not just east asia
Latin America
India
China
[IMG]http://travel.mongabay.com/china/600/china_02-8494.JPG[/IMG]Africa
It does seems to be rarer in africa, and also rare in western Europe, North America, and Australia (which were heavy heavy influenced by western European traditions anyway). Still, all of Europe and North America only holds 16% of the worlds population (Africa about 15%), which means the traditions of 69-94% of the people in the world include nose control. I am not saying it can’t be done without nose control, but 69-94% is a big number to ignore.
December 20, 2012 at 7:09 pm #76267Andy CarsonModeratorNose rings were discussed in the following post, I was just pointing out how common it is internationally. Not trying to derail the thread.
December 21, 2012 at 1:41 am #76271DroveroneParticipantWell thanks for the link
But I have to agree that there is no reason for them
And control is not maintained completely with a nose appliance.December 21, 2012 at 1:56 am #76278OxhillParticipantThey are common many places. Cuba, Italy, India and I have seen several here in the U.S. As a hobbiest who starts calves and currently has no interest in driving from behind I see no value in them. In the movie the new cow he starts is awfully big for an eighty year old man to break and I bet he sees a great value to it. From what I understand about driving from behind the biggest issue is having a reliable way to stop them. Rings are just one of many ways I have been told of to do so. If you do put rings in, and take them anyplace, don’t underestimate the public!
December 21, 2012 at 12:30 pm #76268Andy CarsonModerator@Oxhill 38381 wrote:
If you do put rings in, and take them anyplace, don’t underestimate the public!
Eek!!! Good point.
December 24, 2012 at 5:09 pm #76263dominiquer60ModeratorThanks for sharing Andy, this movie was fantastic indeed. The subtitled version would add some insight but there is certainly a universal language between man and beast, husband and wife that needs no translation and made this a great watch even on my little laptop.
Nose rings and lines may not be needed, neither are bridles and lines for horses, but in public a teamster can not control his surroundings and as long as abuse is not an issue there should be no shame in having extra control for the unexpected situation.
Lets say a teamster at a fair has the unexpected happen, the team is distracted or simply testy and not listening to the teamsters commands, it could lead to a really bad situation that could make the management wonder if they should offer ox competitions.
I have a lot of confidence in my team for somethings and not so much for others. As a novice with very limited time to train, I have no qualms about using a pair of halters and single lines to get a job done with my steers. I would like to get to the point where they are not needed, but lack of knowledge and time lead me to do what what I can with what I have, and I am happy with the results. Most of the time my lines are tied up, but when I need them to reinforce a command, they are there, a simple and humane way to communicate and a good way for me to gain efficiency doing tasks that I rely on for income.
It would be great to take the time to learn from those successfully driving from behind with voice only, perhaps someday, but for now a pair of lines makes a real life working situation a more enjoyable one. I plan on using my steers on my riding cultivator next year, I will use lines with no second thought of it, and I am sure that by the end of the season I will use them less, for repetitive tasks make for wonderful training.
I see that even in the movie the farmer still had to correct the behavior of the old cow now and then, we (man and beast) get better with age, but we still make mistakes.
December 28, 2012 at 9:32 am #76280KellyandKatieParticipantOh my goodness, bawling my eyes out- thank you for sharing
- AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.