Bucking Hemlock Logs

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  • December 21, 2012 at 2:49 pm #44321
    Does’ Leap
    Participant

    I am currently selling hemlock at $310 / mbf with a premium for 16s and 18s at $320 and $330 for 20 footers (this is the price at the mill). Regardless of straightness, I will often cut two 10 footers in what would be a 20 log b/c of the taper. I figure I am only getting a 6% premium for 20s and less for 16s and 18s and that I would lose that in scale b/c of the taper. I guess I could answer my own question by scaling and pricing the 2 ten footers vs. the one 20 footer, but tend to be in production mode when I am out int the woods. Any advice?

    Final question: I cut a standing dead hemlock. I bucked off the bottom 8 feet and the wood looked solid after that with a little dark staining, but not punky and no shake. The chips flying from my saw were not like fresh hemlock but, again, the wood seemed decent. Any sense of whether a mill would accept this? BTW, it was a fairly big tree with maybe 600-700 feet of logs.

    Thanks.

    George

    December 22, 2012 at 1:03 am #76349
    Saxon
    Participant

    With the log showing no sign of decay above where you bucked it off it’s good to go. I’d send it in. Many hemlock logs lay around a good long time before they are sawed and are none the worse for it.
    As for the scale question, well, that’s a good question. I think you do better in the long run sending in the 20ft. logs.

    December 22, 2012 at 11:41 am #76344
    Does’ Leap
    Participant

    Thanks for the response. I am figuring out this logging thing as I go along without having had the benefit of working with someone with experience, so your input is helpful. I will ship some of those logs. I think I will also lean toward the 20 footers. I have watched guys running slashers over here and they seem to be always cutting for length on hemlock.

    George

    December 22, 2012 at 2:30 pm #76347
    Baystatetom
    Participant

    @Does’ Leap 38418 wrote:

    Thanks for the response. I am figuring out this logging thing as I go along without having had the benefit of working with someone with experience, so your input is helpful. I will ship some of those logs. I think I will also lean toward the 20 footers. I have watched guys running slashers over here and they seem to be always cutting for length on hemlock.

    George

    Wow, $320 is good. I am only getting $230 and I have to pay a trucker to load it on a trailer. Allegedly the log rules (scale) take taper into account on longer logs. How ever I do think you may lose some scale anyway, which is often compensated for by higher per thousand prices for the longer logs.
    ~Tom

    December 22, 2012 at 2:41 pm #76341
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    Log rules only measure top end diameter. If you get paid the same price for long and short logs, you will undoubtedly make better scale with shorter logs, however I suspect the premium for the longer logs is specifically designed to take that into consideration. On bigger logs the gain may be better than 6%, but sending them what they are looking for will have other benefits that will pay dividends down the road.

    Time spent measuring will not be time wasted, even if you are in production mode. Remember, with animals we have to make up on the little efficiencies, so determining where they exist will be time well spent. Take a few sweepy logs, measure top ends,and see what kind of differential exists.

    Carl

    December 22, 2012 at 7:01 pm #76345
    Does’ Leap
    Participant

    Hi Tom, that is the price at the mill and I pay trucking ($60/mbf). It is still a good price. Carl, part of my problem with scaling logs is that I don’t have a scale stick. I write the top end diameter and length on a piece of paper and refer to a table when I am back home. Perhaps I should invest in a scale stick and bring it along to the woods with my other logging gear. I was pulling through soup this morning. Conditions look and feel solid until you drag of bunch of logs through and then they turn to mush. We have had a lot of moisture here in the past month and things are far from frozen.

    George

    December 23, 2012 at 2:47 am #76342
    Scott G
    Participant

    Bucking for grade & scale is often what makes the job a win or lose proposition. If you have excessive taper, you will be ahead on scale if you buck it. If you have significant sweep, your’e going to want to buck it or you’ll get dinked for degrade. Significant scars, defects, cankers, etc… will all count against you. It’s all about eye and knowing what your local mills/markets want. Out here we use Scribner C while you folks back east use Doyle or International. Longer material is always premium but you have to make sure your longer material is premium or you’ll get docked/scaled-back for it. George, I would get a scale stick and keep your mill’s cut-list close at hand. it won’t take long for you to know exactly where you need to be bucking your logs.

    December 23, 2012 at 1:55 pm #76348
    Baystatetom
    Participant

    I had a a little brain freeze there. I was thinking of tree scales where the form class takes taper into account. Log scales indeed consider the log to be a cylinder. Scale sticks are cheap enough and easy to find you should get one. . (actually real easy to find around here, I leave them in the woods all over).
    ~Tom

    December 23, 2012 at 3:00 pm #76343
    Rick Alger
    Participant

    With the International scale, if the taper is greater than 1/2″ per four feet, you’re probably better off bucking into smaller logs unless the mill expects a high percent of the load to be 16 footers.

    Those are excellent prices. I would talk to the mill about log length.

    December 23, 2012 at 5:35 pm #76346
    Does’ Leap
    Participant

    @Scott G 38432 wrote:

    Significant scars, defects, cankers, etc… will all count against you. It’s all about eye and knowing what your local mills/markets want.

    Scott, part of the beauty of selling hemlock (for me), aside from the good price that I am getting, is that it is not graded. The mill will dock you for shake, significant sweep, etc., but I have a pretty good handle on that. If hardwood prices rise in this area, I will venture into cutting graded logs which I am sure has a learning curve.

    I decided to plug in some numbers:

    • On a 20′ log with a small end diameter of 14″, it scales out at 175 feet (international).
    • A 10′ log with the same diameter scales out at 80 feet. Another 10′ log with a 15″ diameter scales out at 95 feet.
    • So with a 1″ taper / 10 feet, two 10 footers scale out the same as the 20 footer (i.e 175 feet in both cases). With the price differential ($330 for 20’s and $310 for shorter logs), this would yield me an additional $3 (gross) in this case. Not a whopping difference, but it is not a big log and those differences add up over time.
    • If the taper jumps to 2″ per 10 feet, I would do slightly better cutting to 10 footers with those logs scaling out at 190 feet. Any of you foresters / loggers know how to figure diameter from the circumference of the log accounting for the fact that diameter is calculated inside the bark?

    On a different note, finally some snow here…..Note all the short logs:eek:
    [IMG]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-eI_n0RtIuFU/UNc4vRbR98I/AAAAAAAABlM/nSoCHN5HbW4/s800/P1040133.JPG[/IMG]

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