need some help on this year…

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  • March 19, 2013 at 1:38 am #44594
    PeytonM
    Participant

    I need some help from other guys that farm with horses. I have about 15 ac. at a friends house about 10 miles away that is hay ground, theres one small front field that”s maybe 3 ac and that is in really rough shape. I wanted to put some manure on it see if it would revive it or else plant oats in it. The other field is on top of a hill and is flat and had alright hay for horses or young stock beefers, grass and clover not much alfa. She is buying my old team(15&20yo) and I’m buying another younger team (6&8yo) I have a case #5 mower new knives and guards so I don’t think I would need to do much work as far as repair. now to put up hay as far as bail it I was was going to use a tractor to do that and a JD 336 small square baler of my parents but my mom told me today that they were selling the 2 tractors that we used with that baler. I wanted a I&J pto cart the HD but i really cant afford one. So is there something I could make to run the baler? If I spend 500 and got a 4 cyl gas motor from a farmall H or M and made a engine powered fore cart? or what else could I do? I don’t know anyone that I would be able to use a tractor from and the only tractor I own is a Farmall H and its way too small to run that 336

    thanks for the help

    March 19, 2013 at 1:57 am #77823
    Mac
    Participant

    Peyton,
    Is your Farmall an H or Super H? Dad baled some with his “Big H”, so you might be ok. But I’m unfamiliar with the JD 336 baler. Old man had a New Holland and it ran just fine. Another idea you might try is putting a pony motor on the baler itself and run it that way. Neighbor ran his Case baler with 4 cyl Wisconsin. (It was a hand crank and hell to start.) Just a thought.
    Mac

    March 19, 2013 at 2:31 am #77824
    PeytonM
    Participant

    just the H not a Super. I had it hooked on a green chopper, flail chopper that is a NH and that was really a work out for it. It might be able to handle it if it was just baler and didnt pull a kicker wagon.
    dad had a Oliver 770 and a farmall 460 on it both are a 50 hp tractor, but the ones he is selling is a 766 and a 886. the other side of things is dad still has a 1412 NH discbine so if i got in a crunch and ran short on time I would cut with that.. and I need the 7 or 8 to run that.

    March 19, 2013 at 4:08 am #77833
    j.l.holt
    Participant

    I pulled a New Holland baler with a H Farmall. 1 gear lower and more throtle took care of everything I had to bale.

    March 19, 2013 at 5:14 am #77828
    Eli
    Participant

    I bailed thousands of bales with a farmall H and a IH 37 baler pulling a wagon. The 336 is a newer higher capacity baler But in this case it’s about how much you feed it. You could mount a 15 20 horse gas motor on the baler and pull it with your horses. Eli

    March 19, 2013 at 5:46 am #77829
    Eli
    Participant

    When I was a kid a friend of our family pulled a baler with an engine on with his truck. And we had a miniapolis Moline pull type combine with a gas engine by ouy barn for years. I wish I could find all that stuff now. Just rambling Eli

    March 19, 2013 at 10:18 am #77819
    Donn Hewes
    Keymaster

    I think making hay with the horses is fun, but it is hard work and each piece takes a little time to learn. I would recommend starting with the raking, tedding, and mowing and working up to baling. If you have never used the mower before but it has some new parts. start clipping or mowing something at the end of April to make sure it is working the way you want and give you and your animals a little chance to get used to it.

    Provided you have a decent forecart, raking and tedding with horses is pretty easy. It helps if you have already spent some time making hay with a tractor, as you already know what you need to do. Baling with horses can be accomplished in a number of different ways, many mentioned above. I believe a motor on the baler is slightly more efficient than the motor on a PTO cart, but that depends on what else you might want to pull with the PTO cart. If you want to use a small combine, or haybine (discbine will usually take a much bigger motor) then a motor on a cart is a good idea. Most of the baling systems use at least four horses if you want to put the bales on a wagon. Careful about the idea of baling with a ground drive cart. It could work. But I believe it will be another level of challenge. More horses required (6 or 8 to load a wagon), and a little harder just to keep the baler going as windrows change, etc.

    It is fun, but there is lots to learn, also having the hay at that distance is an added challenge. Lots of hay making photos on my web album. click on web
    album.

    One more thing – if I was going to build a ground up gas powered PTO cart, I would spend the extra money to buy a good small 25 hp battery start gas eng. Honda or the like.

    March 19, 2013 at 1:46 pm #77830
    Eli
    Participant

    Remember to run your baler fast enough, Let the flywheel do the work. My father was an ag mechanic/dairy farmer and we went on baler calls all the time and 90% of the people ran their baler to slow. I was the only kid on the block with wide open throttle privileges. I to plan to make hay with horses this summer. I hope to cut and rake first with the horses and have it round baled. And second and third I hope to cut rake and small bale. But if I have problems I will break out the tractor. Good luck to all. Eli

    March 19, 2013 at 3:52 pm #77834
    j.l.holt
    Participant

    I have always though that the only thing on a farm that has to be done when the time was right was making hay. All the plowen, plantin,and picked can wait a week or two in most years. If you can save a little here and there all year you would have 50gal fuel on hand to do your hay work. and if any could be done with the team that much better. You surly can justifie useing the tractor to get a much needed crop in. This is not about going back to the old ways. its about doing all we can with the horses we have. And if you have work 10mo of the year for a team, foolish to keep two teams just for hay season. just sayn

    March 19, 2013 at 5:40 pm #77831
    Eli
    Participant

    The only thing harder than making is buying hay.

    March 20, 2013 at 1:43 am #77825
    PeytonM
    Participant

    Donn,

    I have done my fair share of hay work, I would drive the oliver 770 and dad would stand on the kicker wagon and stack the hay to get more on the wagon. I was about 6-7 at the time of that. last summer I did all the round bales for a farmer with a IH 7120 or 7130 and a JD 556? or something like that. thats Hay, soybean and corn stalks. I also cut hay with a NH H8080 one with the mowmax head and a Durabine head, I rather ran the mowmax head, the durabine was nothing but nightmare, one thing broke after another on it. the knives would wear out on the bolt hole before the edge would be worn. I don’t know why and the dealer didn’t know why also.

    I just did know how much HP that 338 would take, its got a kicker on it but it doesn’t work, theres a valve or something broke on it so the hay would just fall on the ground. I would just use a flat rack to run around and pick it up.

    I also have some questions about your pics Donn, Theres a 3 wheeled PTO cart. How did you find out where 540 would be off the pullys? I want to build something like that cart you have. I was thinking of having a front end done alittle different than what you have. how did you get the brakes on that car also? just trailer brakes drums and spindles? too bad we don’t live closer! We’d have some crazy things. I think i could learn alot from working around you a summer, a lot of home made DIY stuff I see at your place. How did the PTO cart built from a mower work out? how wide is that NH haybine? does it ever make that honda really bog down?

    March 20, 2013 at 4:18 am #77832
    Eli
    Participant

    Peyton be super careful of that thrower it’s a great machine when it works and they usually do. But if it trips when you are in the way it’s not good . The thrower takes more power than the baler. I cant see running that bailer with less than 60 or 70 horse. My two cents. Eli
    P.S. a 338 JD baler is about as high capacity as you can get if you pull it with race horses you could bale 1000 bales an hour. That’s my three cent.s Eli

    March 20, 2013 at 5:18 am #77822
    near horse
    Participant

    Not that this is the route you want to go but to show how wide your options are, there’s a guy in Indiana who converts JD square balers (like a 336) to ground drive. Dris Abraham at Historic Prophetstown Indiana runs one — I think there are a couple of pics on their website google Historic Prophetstown. I admit that the windrows weren’t any monsters like you’d run with a swather setup but it seemed to make decent bales. I think he ran 4 on that machine but can’t recall for sure.

    March 20, 2013 at 10:48 am #77820
    Donn Hewes
    Keymaster

    Hi Peyton, I am having fun – I must confess. The ground drive PTO has never worked perfectly. The key to ground drive PTO carts is matching the weight of the cart with the work you want to do. That cart is just a little too light to run a four star tedder, which is what I wanted it to do. Google farmhack and look at the event we are having next month. We will convert a AC wd 45 to ground drive cart ala Neal Perry. Should be fun.

    The gas powered PTO cart was built over a couple years, but the main work was done at an Amish welding shop in Romulus, NY. He matched the honda to the pulleys and made a great pivoting shaft to engage and disengage it. I like having a third wheel but I might use a bigger tire. I like having the tongue free up and down and side to side. Side to side does help get the whole rig slightly farther into a corner. It is just about impossible to back with anything hooked on. I try to keep it hooked up.

    The breaks I put on my self and the are brake drums and brake lines. I got them from some out fit in NE, but I would look for other suppliers (SFJ?). The cart also has hydraulics and that is nice if you want to use different pieces of equipment. there are two pulleys on the front of the motor. That haybine is a seven footer as it was local and i wasn’t sure what size I wanted. That cart would have handled a nine footer easy. It coasted with the haybine. I have since gone back to mowing with sickle bar mowers. I use two seven foot bars and two teams and can mow more , faster, and I like it better. There is about one day a year when I wish I still had the haybine.

    March 20, 2013 at 12:49 pm #77826
    PeytonM
    Participant

    Soory for the typo its a 336, not a 338.

    Donn a buddy of mine is doing that, do you have to make the pto shaft solid to the main shaft in the trans being you wont have the motor to turn it? I had my rear end all apart on my hand don’t really remember how things all looked in there, a buddt of mine has a wc he’s gonna do that to and says that he is gonna have a cluch on it still but I don’t understand how he could have on.

    I want to make my power cart like the feeder wagons dairy farmers used, its a pipe in side a pipe, and the inside pipe getts t’d bu another and that has spinds and hubs on it and the mount for the pole.

    Thanks for all the help!

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