[Gabe Ayers]

This is a good thread.

I had always thought that the horse that was behind was in the hole and had more of the load just because they were closer to the resistance or load. It seems the horse that is behind has a hard time bringing their side back to even. I guess I was just reading the horses more than the physics or engineering, because it seems that horses that are hooked heavy seem to want to be out front, which made me think it was easier than being behind.
Live and learn.

We have a pretty well worn pulling double tree with the same 1/2 inch adjustments as Carl’s and we have put allot of horses on the “short end of the stick”. Ours is in line, but then the hook is behind all the holes. It was always an adjustment to put more of the load on which horse we knew was stouter for various reasons. I wonder if that is where that saying came from when used to suggest someone is given a disadvantage in a given situation?
The more you work a pair the easier it is to get similar sized horses on even.
The setting in really shows up on long skidds or very heavy loads.

A question I always wanted to ask Tim is if he thought a buffer would add to the capacity of a pulling team? If so, I want one…

Jason

[Gabe Ayers]

I will try to get some photos of the modifications I made on the bobsled sometime soon. In answer to your question Mark, my sled is a single bunk sled almost exactly like Carl’s. I cut and load all the wood log length, mostly 16 footers.

The bridle chains came from a collection that Carl had in his barn. The chain itself is just very thick gauge, heavy duty chain (3/4-more than and inch). George, I think that you will need a similar size chain as a standard skid chain will not provide enough drag to be effective on steep ground, but that is a good question to run by Carl (who has much more experience with a bob). The brackets that hold the chains are just 1/4 plate steel cut and welded in a U shape and mounted upside down on the top of the runner. One side of the U has most of the length of the chain (inside of the runner) and the other side (outside of the runner) as the small finger catch to facilitate easy on and off of the chains. The trick is to make the chain long enough so that it can be wrapped around the front of the runner and latched and then as the runners come forward the chain is dragged underneath the loaded sled. I had to modify one old bracket that Carl gave me and weld up the other, but it is not difficult to do (I have limited welded skills). The tools you will need are welder, drill press or heavy duty drill, metal saw, vice, and heavy hammer. Other than that, you need the steel and bolts to mount the brackets. I used the bolts that hold the metal runners to the wooden runners. So far they have held on well. One other trick – make sure that the U bracket is wider than the runners as you will need space for the chain attached to the bracket to move and not get pinched between the bracket and the side of the runner (1-1.5 inches will do, depending on the size of the bridle chain you are using).

[Gabe Ayers]

Same to you John, glad to have a chance to do better than 2010….hope to best for everyone!

Jason

[Gabe Ayers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rubxQ5ATGZM&feature=player_embedded

Here is some nice single horse logging from Scandinavia.

Jason

[Gabe Ayers]

Wow – That’s awesome MuleRyder, you could put a real name with that so we can share and be fair to you at the author – If you would allow your poem being shared? I liked it too.

Biological Woodsman
Jason Rutledge

[Gabe Ayers]

I think a factor is the herd instinct of the horses. Usually their herd mate is in the woods while they are skidding and if they are working some distance from the homeplace, it seems natural that going back to the other horse would be their nature. That is a factor my papa pointed out to me. The horses are often turned aloose when they are skidding off real steep ground. They learn to go no faster than they have to and of course they also are worked regularly and learn by sheer volume of effort against resistance to use no more energy than necessary.

Also they are individuals and all horses may no have enough training, experience or the resulting sense to do this.

I agree a good horse is worth more than a man that doesn’t know what he’s doing. It usually takes one man per horse though in most systems, even if it is one man cutting timber, bucking logs and clearing skid trails. I have done much logging with a team by myself, but that is not my favorite way of logging. Goes awful slow and isn’t as safe in case something happens and you’re working where there is no cell phone signal….it also isn’t as much fun as sharing the experience with another human.

Jason

[Gabe Ayers]

Simon,

I thought you used a Sugar Valley Collar on Sultan? I know the harness is different from anything we have in the states – simple, strong and long lasting. We hope to convert some of our harness to use the Norweign back pads on our Yankee d-ring some time this spring.

[Gabe Ayers]

http://www.youtube.com/user/JasonRutledge?feature=mhum

this is the link to a few seconds of the treadmill running the woods splitter. There is a front and read view there.

[Gabe Ayers]

Geoff,
The wear is barely noticeable, but it is something that will eventually wear away. The horses are flat shod.

I have clips on you tube of the first time we used it this winter under Jason Rutledge’s Channel.

[Gabe Ayers]

Geoff-
According to the VT SOS office, we are all set unless for some reason our sponsor does not adhere to rules/regs in OR. Would be worth running that question by the folks at SFC, and they may have legal counsel that could answer that more specfically (without us having to hire an OR lawyer).
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

Geoff-
I believe I am correct in asserting that the only rules we need to follow are those that govern the 501c3 under whom we are sponsored. There are both state and federal guidelines for legal matters concerning 501c3 organizations, but from what I gathered in the conversations with the SOS offices in VT and OR we are fine to have a sponsor out there.
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

Well, the issue is more about the cultural setting I think. Growing as a pioneer in a regenerating forest is a good setting for the growth of knot free wood at a reasonable growth rate. The summer growth is stronger, but the real issue is growing with cohorts that encourage straight stem development and a reasonable lifespan to create usable sized material. They do put out lots of sprouts sometimes and can be propagated with root cuttings or scions.

[Gabe Ayers]

Yes, I am all set for the conference call. Sorry for the delay – just today got word from Lisa that simply replying to thread via email does not work!!! Good thing I can drive a horse better than use my computer…
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

Jean,

I must admit that I am not worried about black locust lumber posioning horses through their feet. I know the foilage is toxic, but horses generally don’t eat them in the rougher parts of old growing up pastures. As a player in the forest ecosystem the BL is appropriately not desireable for stock so the reforestation can get a good start by this legumous pioneer species returning unmowed, but grazed land back to a forested condition. Mostly we just thought it might be somewhat tougher and longer lasting than any other species we have locally available particularly when left outdoors.

We still have an idea that a rubber mat or belting around the tread would add to comfort, durability and the life of the treads. I suppose rubber is toxic too, but we would most likely have flat shoes on a horse broke enough to work on the treadmill, but barefoot would work well too. We simply haven’t had time to work the treadmill enough yet to feel experienced about it.

We have been busy working on the owner build Warm Hearth Retirement Village pool enclosure structure. It is 35 miles from the farm so we to do more traveling that I am used to or like. It is a great project and we will report more about it as time goes on. We do have some information on our DRAFTWOOD Forest Products facebook page. Several photos there also.

Best Regards,

[Gabe Ayers]

For me the lever vs. friction bit – is a matter of having power steering or manual. I wouldn’t be working horses at this age without lever bit in my tool box. Not necessary on all horses but definitely refines the signaling on others.

Jason

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