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- Gabe AyersKeymaster
Rick,
Thank you sir. We have truly enjoyed working in this setting. It is truly a rare occasion to have such a work place, but it didn’t happen accidentally.
We have worked for a long time to define this approach as the most sensitive method to address human needs for forest products and those needs combined with a landowner that has an intensely fierce value for the aesthetic natural beauty of the forest justify the application of our techniques and methods. There are a particular combination of “values” that brought us to this spot.
The first is being a promoter of alternative forest management expressed through our Restorative Forestry Services consulting business. People inquire and then hire us to walk and consult on what they have and how we would recommend they accomplish their objectives within principles of restoration.
During this process we tell them what we see as the history of the forest as it relates to the current condition, we identify tree and understory species present, average age range, estimated volume of stocking and then identify individuals that fit into our worst first single tree selection silviculture.Once that vision or viewpoint is shared and embraced, we move to the next step, which is the economics of actually doing the work. Those numbers are varied as the end use is defined by the landowner. In this case it was to used it to build their own home. This is the type of end use that supports our approach best. It is obviously slower and more expensive than buying in from normal (not sustainable) channels, or even other international “green certified” sources (FSC). The primary point is that the landowner has a high value on using their own material yet protecting, preserving and enhancing their own natural resource base.
I won’t go into the numbers in this post, but the point is that some folks are willing to pay more and accept that in this case you get what you pay for, i.e. superior natural resource management services.
Now, the other way we have connected with such landowners is through the builders of extremely high end structures such as timber frames. These folks are just like the rest of the economy and seeing slowing in their business. So they are embracing a gentler sourcing approach to take advantage of the market demand for “green” anything. So I would suggest that you or any small time horse, mule or oxen logger contact any Timber Frame or green building companies and tell them of your services. They may reject it initially as being to expensive, but if they are open minded enough they may see this as another way to sell their goods and services. Hopefully we will soon have some web sites to link to for an example that could be translated to any forested area. There are currently some web site links, but the information is being better refined to help the client understand and know what it is about.
A second commonality of these clients is that the land is under conservation easements, that restrict future use of the land in order to reduce the local tax burden on the property to be limited to it’s actual use as a forest. We have written and contributed to the development of many conservation easements by offering wording to support and justify extraction from the forest, “for the health of the forest”. There are many states that have working conservation easements. The primary restriction of a conservation easement is that it can never be clear cut and there can’t be but some many houses on it – which restricts development. This is often the location of the right kind of landowner that is willing and able to pay for the superior services you and many animal powered folks may provide.
It is a niche….which we are all used to anyway. It takes a while to find the clients though any method and may be a long term development by any practitioner of restorative and therefore sustainable forestry. Anyone is welcome to contact me through the email below if they want more information. There are certainly many more details than shared in this post.
Thanks for your interest Rick. This is exactly the kind of response I was after when starting this thread. Let me know what you think.
Meanwhile – we are planning much more food production this coming season to hopefully offset the loss of income from the logs delivered markets we have sold some of our material to historically.
Gabe AyersKeymasterDan,
I haven’t figured out how to post a photo in the body of the message yet either. Maybe you can put it in the regular photo section. I’d like to see it too.
We are restoring a couple of MC D mowers around here, mostly to clip pasture.
I have a sickle sharpener that you mount on a bench and sharpen the sections that way. I’ve never seen one you mount on the mower itself. I may not understand how it works. A high speed hand held grinder will eat up some sections for sure.Gabe AyersKeymasterJ-L
Sir, I am not picking on cattlemen at all. I was/am just trying to compare two basic rural industries that are comparable in the number of people employed. My point is if the cattle markets closed there would be an uproar of protest. I have cattle too. A protest would be justified, I know how marginal all of it is folks, I have been here for over thirty years farming, logging and being a practicing forester.
The point is that these two are common publicly operated markets for commodities produced in this part of rural America and that in this area the forest products industry – from stump to finished goods has historically been the largest employer in the region.
And yes you are right my statement of facts about employment were for the mostly forested regions of the eastern U.S. not Wyoming or the west or mid west in general. I was speaking of the eastern oak hickory forest type region. Please excuse and forgive that unclear wording on this international forum. I will add that homegrown beef and wild venison are the meat we eat regularly.
My main purpose was to have folks discuss what they are doing other than depending on the commodity defined markets to make a living working their animals.
In that light and to that end, I would invite anyone interested to visit a blog about a project we have been working on for a few months that have kept us out of the commodity defined markets. We are looking forward to several other projects similar to this as a “green marketing” approach to low impact development. We hope this trend will continue.
http://www.crookedriver.wordpress.com
If you have comments or questions about the project I would appreciate you addressing to me through this forum or my email address below. Thanks for consideration on that issue.
One positive environmental aspect of this current market condition is that most conventional forest products procurement and raw log producers are hurting bad, to the point of not working. This means less clear cutting and less high grading and the reduction of inventory in the over stocked saw mills.
I think we can ride it out too. We also are recommending many landowners practice timber stand improvement and not think of making “big money” from any timber sale at this moment…or “big money” at any other moment for that matter.
Since we now have over 5 million people drawing unemployment benefits, things are bad even for those willing and able to work. Farmers and loggers don’t have that safety net. So some things may change in the natural resource management decisions in the future.
PS – We are still able to sell softwood pulp for about 19.00 a ton delivered about thirty miles away one way….hardly worth doing….
Gabe AyersKeymasterI have seen drawings of a system of ledges on three different levels. The top being larger than the second and the third smaller than the second. The manure was piled and layered with other residue on the top, some watering as needed was applied and after so many days the material has heated and reduced volume somewhat and was turned to the lower level with oxen and a crude plow like device – one pass at a time. The plow was reversible and a few passes back and forth moved and turned the manure to the next lower level. There it sat and composted further, again some water added if needed and then turned again to the next level to a finish product using gravity and a crude plow to move the material to the edge and lower level. There was obviously lots of hand work involved, collection and gathering to the start of the process and carrying away to the fields and gardens from the bottom.
This process was in India I think. Using gravity and animal power to move the material sounds appropriate. Of course the pitch fork is still the primary tool…Gabe AyersKeymasterWell I’m not really sure about the Southern Draft Horse Association, but they may be a pulling horse group more than a general draft horse association.
I don’t want to criticize their efforts, because just like the Bud Clydes, they are giving draft horses a place in the public eye and giving draft horses something to do. I would have to say I hope I have friends in that group too.
But these folks are serious about winning and are no different than any other professional level sport. I guess some qualifiers of being a serious pulling circuit are how much money do they pay to win and how far people travel to compete.
I had a TV reporter interview me once at a big time pull, (back before I stopped going long distances – just to be out classed). and he asked did I think the animals were abused and drugged. My response was that they were probably about as abused and drugged as the audience watching it or the general human population, no more, no less. They aired it… got a few comments, but back then I wasn’t as public as now…
Then there was a very proper lady came up to me once at a small pull and said you look like a reasonable man (duh…what?) – don’t you think pulling these horses is cruel? So I took my hands and made a square shape on my horses rump and said Maim, just imagine this is a can of Alpo, do you think
Duke would rather be in that can or here doing this with us? My point being this is something for horses to do, although not as undeniably beneficial as being the power source for restorative sustainable forestry, but a place on this earth as a useful living creature, which is better than disappearing altogether.If you want to avoid dishonesty and ego, you may have to avoid most human sports activities altogether or maybe most human activities period.
Most human sports have the element of judging/referees/umpires, etc involved….that makes it subject to the most important player not actually being a player… not to mention additional honesty and ego questions…
I think the element of community that Carl speaks of is more of what horse pulling means to us small time fellows. That does make it a valuable cultural experience and just more fun. People are happy – glad to be there, friendly and usually helpful in any way possible. It is a group experience when kept to a local regional level.
If you are close to any advertised pull it is probably worth going, I would.
Hope this doesn’t make to many folks mad… got to get off here, watching PBR…..
Gabe AyersKeymasterPulling Horses,
I have an article coming out in the Draft Horse Journal this next issue about our experience with the Ferrum Blue Ridge Folklife Festival last year (08). So most of the gist of that experience was or has been written about on DAP, so there it probably isn’t appropriate to write more about it now.
I would mention that just yesterday I posted in the “Horses” photo gallery several crossbred horses we have among our group of HHFF practitioners. Every one of the photos is from a horse pull.
I have been pulling ponies and horses since about 74. I have won a few contest but have not won many many more. I was taken to my first horse pull as an adult by a now deceased horseman named Donald Alpaugh from western New Jersey. Back when it still had some agricultural land and culture. He had two rules, never shock them and never drug them. His honorable participation was in doing the best he could against those that didn’t go by his rules. He was an inspiration to me, I was about 24 at the time and bought my first pair of draft ponies from him. I eventually traded around and got a pair that could get on the same load as Donald but never came close to actually beating him. He always crossed a load on me (pulled the load the entire required distance).
There are definitely allot of different attitudes about pulling horses. Dan Iron Rose said it clearly. I have never been in the do anything to win bunch, but at times have done lots of preparation to be competitive.
I have brought all the Biological Woodsmen to pulls with me as part of the cultural experience of working horses for a living. I have had some grief over the issue with a person close to me, but we ended up have irreconcilable differences in life generally. The point for me is that this is a thoughtful personally rewarding experience that I have made my own place in – with a specific goal or goals. Accomplishing those goals is what I will not let go of and will share. They have evolved from my mentor Donald Alpaugh and hopefully I have passed them on to others.
First goal is to have well presented calm and honest horses. This means their manes and tails are brushed/combed out, they don’t have any baling twine on their harness and they are relatively well controlled approaching, hitching and leaving the sled. One thing that has inspired my participation is that I know I am pulling or performing for the folks in the crowd and not the other pullers. As mentioned before I have always pulled my horses under some larger name or title than my own name. It seems an obvious way to gain attention to any business or cause one wants to promote, because they mention the driver/handlers name anyway, so if you want something said over the loudspeaker to the entire crowd then this is an opportunity. It compounds the benefit one may gain from participation, particularly if you are in the logging business and want to only work in the best woods owned by the smartest landowners. For instance, I have pulled many years under Environmentally Sensitive Logging and Lumber Co., Healing Harvest Forestry Coalition, Healing Harvest Forest Foundation, Draftwood Forest Products, Turman Draftwood Log Homes, and whatever I want to advertise or introduce to the viewing public.
For us this is one of the largest non auction crowds to ever see a horse doing anything. Many of the old hands watching appreciate the control and honest effort of our horses yet their numbers are fading fast. The largest segment of the crowd are people completely new to rural life and maybe to seeing work horses doing anything. Those are my interest group among the spectator crowd. It is important to remember that one only gets one chance to make a first impression, so I am convinced that understanding remains a part of publicly asking your animals for a tremendous effort.
As also mentioned about the Blue Ridge Folklife Festival I have been doing this a long time so many long time spectators know who we are. One of the mindsets to training horses to do well in this setting it to understand how horses think. They remember the setting and circumstances of every moment.
And in this part of the country one can’t strike or whip or even let your driving lines touch the horses (supposedly) throughout the effort. The rules also say you can’t head the horses between the out of bounds lines. So this means one has to be mindful of how to develop the horses to think that they can do what you ask regardless of the setting. This is why before we ever ask our horses for all they have at any contest, we take them to several contests and pull very hard and then drop out before they are hung or hooked to more than they can cross. Cross means pull the load the entire distance in one constant effort, full distance being 27 & 1/2 feet. So for many trips our young horses are taken to pulls and allowed to succeed before asking for all they can do, because that is the only way to make/allow them to be honest in that setting. It takes a considerable investment in travel and training to get any pair to the point they can compete with folks that do “anything” to win.So I am not real poplar with those “anything to win” pullers, because they never know when we may turn a pair lose to do all they can do. They worry about it all the time. It is amusing to me and doubly troubling for the others. Because when we do elect to voluntarily drop out we actually get the largest applause from the audience than even the eventual winner. Often I have seen certain segments of the audience get up a leave the stands after we drop out, because they have seen what they came to see and don’t like seeing the horses hung up on loads they can’t pull.
I would say it takes at least three serious efforts by a new team in a pulling contest setting before asking them for all they have, sometimes maybe more. I have had horses that I took to seven contest before asking them for all they have. There are all sorts of approaches to preparing for a pull, and this is just our way.
It is interesting that there are now “pulling horse” auctions that sell horses that come from particular bloodlines known to be good pulling horses. These horses are usually well started and maybe have been to a few contest but have usually never been hung. Once you hang one in public and they know you won’t do anything about it in that setting your horses start trying less and less. They become what I call “show wise”. I have seen many of our competitors do this to many horses over the years and not even know it. These are the folks that keep going back to the sale to get a new pair after they basically defeated the last pair without even knowing it.
Usually despite being the same size and training one horse is a little bit stronger than the other so the teamsters job is to say whoa when one is hung or stops. As long as they have their head and necks stretched out and are trying you usually don’t sour them to the effort. As an old fellow told me once it is a lot better to stop two steps to soon, than one step to late. Among the HHFF pullers they know who is pulling honest and who is pulling for pure ego.
The pullers don’t like to see our old ragged trailer roll in, but the organizers do…..
Like many of the subjects broached on this board – it is complex, so I won’t wear the site out with a long post, but there is allot to pulling horses. I will say that over the thirty years of so of doing this with all breds – the red horses generally have the most try – just by their nature. This is part of why I am so dedicated to them, they have returned that dedication in multiple ways over the years. I believe one can breed heart into horses, it is a matter of attitude and that can be replicated through selective breeding, but training is even more important.
For the most part, generally – the serious horse pulling circuit is a game for rich people as a hobby, then hiring real pro’s to do the handling. We have never been in that class for several reasons and aren’t looking to go there with our re-creational, promotional, advertising, fun activity.
More later, if anyone finds this interesting……
Gabe AyersKeymasterHere at the homeplace we have a woven wire paddock with a board on the top and a 2×4 extension into the paddock with a hot wire on it. This way all horses that I don’t know about go in the paddock to learn about the hot wire in a setting that doesn’t invite them to run through it while they are getting a memorable experience from the little shiney or white wire.
Then when we turn horses into a new enclosure we just walk them around counter clockwise, leading from the left, allowing them to see the wire and when we get back to where we started we turn them lose and they know where their perimeters are.
We use a single strand of poly or wire on our temporary paddocks on logging jobs all the time and rotate with a single wire in small pasture lots with one.
Deer constantly run through the stuff and tear it down. Most horses will not go over where it was, even when it isn’t there. Not the case with Rudy. When I am gone for more than three days and a deer tears his fence down he is out…
One of our auspicious spring plans to to finish the board fence (with electric on the top board) around his paddock. He was born in that field and knows the fence charge better than me.
You would think somebody in the logging and lumber business would have board fence everywhere…and then there is the story of the cobbler’s kids being barefoot….
Gabe AyersKeymasterWVDrafty,
You are welcome anytime you can get over the river and up here. I guess we are about 75 miles from Princeton Bluefield, just go south on 460 towards Blacksburg and then over to Christiansburg and then on route 8 south, over a couple more ridges to the edge of Appalachia in Floyd county.
Rudy is aging. He will be 15 this year. Still stout, active and will train another gelding this spring. We plan to work him with one of his sons that is bigger than him and slow as a snail. I like em slow….. the older I get the slower I like em.
Accepting that horses tend to have natural gates against resistance is easy as long as they are willing and ongoing.
We have a few registered mares to bred him to and many grades as always. Of course at today’s cost of keeping any animal – a more valuable one cost the same to keep as a cheaper one. But the main point is that one likes what they have and gets along with them. Most draft animals will do more work than most people will ever do these days. And if you don’t get along with them you won’t do anything with them.
I have always wanted to cross a Brabant with a Suffolk. Had old Rocky here several times. He was Tommy Flowers Brabant stallion from South Carolina. Couldn’t get him to breed a horse while he was on the road, Tommy thought it would make him foolish while traveling and that horse did some traveling. Tommy brought him and Bula to every HPD for year. I think he would have been fine to breed a mare anywhere, he was a perfect gentleman. Although Tommy’s handling and choices may have been why he was humble away from the farm. He probably knew best and it was and always is the stallion owner’s call. I just would have liked to had some of that bulk in a pair of geldings. Rocky passed away last year and Tommy is still getting over it. Unfortunately he didn’t have any colts out of him to carry on the Rocky bloodline. He has daughters though and they are nice horses too.
I have certainly bred mares with Rudy all over the country. I have bred thoroughbreds in northern Virginia, and grades tied to the side of the trailer down in the Chesapeake, and unexpected breedings when mares came to see him in the night, over the one strain electric fence at the logging camps. The funny part about those logging camp reproduction programs is that I never get a breeding fee…. It has happened more than once – I think it may be a plan with some of these guys…. When they do get out they go off to themselves and he keeps the mares away from the other horses, just like in the wild…
Anyway – we have lots of crosses in our group of Biological Woodmen, most possess some hybrid vigor for sure and are great work horses. It is the people that make them that way though, a horse is just a biological potential without a horseman (or woman – man is a just a contraction of hu-man). I should post some photos of crossbreds under this thread. There are several out there I would just like to have a photo of. I think all horses are more alike than different.
Look forward to meeting you in person WV D. Give me a call to make sure I am around and come on over.
BTW – if you are interested in logging some in WV I get calls all the time and don’t have anyone to refer them too….not in WV at the moment. My email and phone number are below.
Salute,
Gabe AyersKeymasterGreat looking pair of crossbreds man. They would be wonderful to cross with a Suffolk stallion. We have one over in Virginia if you are interested in reproducing them and having the offspring also be red…..and willing.
About half the horses we work in the woods are crossbreds of all kinds. Most are crosses of draft breeds on both sides, but several are lighter horses and drafts. They always have lots of vigor and can do the work. They are usually all the horse most folks ever need.
Let me know what you think about crossing to our Suffolk stallion?
Gabe AyersKeymasterWhere do folks on DAP buy their farm seeds, hay, forage, spring oats and such?
Gabe AyersKeymasterThere is no question that poison may be the only option for dealing with alien invasive botanical species. Having been a lifelong organic farmer, this is a big statement. I hate the thought of using this stuff anywhere….but we have no other choice in battling the displacement of native vegetation in our forest. I would say the the hand application of this material is less damaging to the entire ecosystem than sloppy spraying everywhere. Caution should be used by any applicator of these materials. Follow the guidelines, read the instructions and keep the use of this material specific and targeted to the intended plants.
This is a very important issue for rural America. I recently wrote an editorial to be submitted our local paper about this and will submit it below:
Bio-Terrorism, It’s Already Here!
This story is not about anthrax – that we still don’t know where it came from, or lead in children’s toys, poison toothpaste or even bugs that kill trees brought in by harboring in untreated pallets from China or Asia.
This terrorism is probably benign in origin or at least from ignorance. The Bio-Terrorism I worry most about is from Alien Invasive Botanicals. These are already here and aggressively displacing native vegetation at catastrophic rates.
This displacement of our native vegetation is extremely threatening. The forest is particularly damaged by the presence of these plants. They literally can stop the forest from regenerating itself naturally. Since so much of our region is forested this is very important to all of our futures and our children’s futures.
The particularly bad and already common invasive botanicals in the northeast end of the county are Oriental Bittersweet, Privet, Japanese Ladder Grass, Autumn Olive, and Garlic Mustard, to name a few. Many of these plants were brought into the country as horticultural products and the forest has plenty of volunteer shrubbery contributions where valuable trees could be growing.
The problem is that these plants are all disturbance dependent, meaning ground disturbance, as in soil being exposed and natural conditions altered. So many human activities promote their spread.
While speaking to a group of USDA forester’s in Washington recently they asked what I thought we should do about it. I don’t have a clear answer, but my suggestion was to put a bounty on these plants have people pull them up and dispose of them for a modest fee. Humans brought them here and may be the only way to safely battle them.
You may visit the web site below and read more about Alien Invasive Botanicals. You may also visit our web site and read about our local restorative forestry non-profit that promotes the best forestry we know.
We can battle them, limit disturbance and fight to protect our land, but it will be a war. The plants have a head start on us and lots of allies. Let us know if you have any ideas.
http://www.nps.gov/plants/ALIEN/pubs/index.htm
http://www.healingharvestforestfoundation.org
Jason Rutledge
Ridgewind Farm
Copper Hill, Va.
540-651-6355Gabe AyersKeymasterI am not a drover, so this is just general working animal thoughts.
I think this early training is very important to establish the pace of their efforts.
If you load them heavy or heavier to start with there is a tendency to move faster against the resistance which is not what you would want for a working animal. Hooking any learning animal to more than they can do comfortably is a formula for balking. Moving faster makes it easier and that is not a lesson that can be lived with later in their working lives. Your job is to slowly develop their strength to the greatest level without defeating their confidence or asking for more than they can do for their level of conditioning and training.
The point is to reward them for their best behavior – to have a positive reinforcement of that behavior. In other words when they move confidently, slowly and patiently against light resistance they will develop that mode of travel later despite the load being or becoming heavier – if you reward them for the effort while training by stopping them when they are doing everything exactly right. Rewarding by stopping when everything is perfect is the hardest part of being a new teamster with new animals. But look for that feeling of all is going good and say whoa. Allow them to stand quietly and regain their wind and then ask them to start again.
Positive reinforcement example:
We had a young fellow working a big team of Devon/Jersey cross steers on one of our logging jobs back in the fall. Big pretty brutes with lots of power and energy.The problem was that they wanted to travel fast all the time regardless of the load and the drover had to constantly run up front and try to slow them down. (I have to mention that all this activity was somewhat unsettling to the horses that were in sight of it.) Well this seemed (to me) to be rewarding them for going fast. Every time they would start running out of the woods down the skid trail he would run up and stop them. So we suggested that he start them for just few slow steps and stop them while they were still traveling at a safe controlled working pace. It didn’t take but a few repeated reward sessions like that and they were going slower and getting much more rest for the behavior.
So start them light and slow, as Carl says go light and go often and rest them when they are doing everything perfectly. It has been said that “the greatest reward for any beast of burden is cessation of demand”.
Got luck, take your time, build them up, enjoy your work and help your animals enjoy it too.
Gabe AyersKeymasterADKLogger,
I suspect it will be harder to find someone that can work such a horse safely – than to find a horse that has this kind of experience in their background.
Horses are so cheap now that it will be easy to find one that has some experience, but having a horseman to work them will be very important. Who will work this horse in the woods?
Maybe you have gotten some contact by now and we wish you good luck, let us know how it goes please.
Gabe AyersKeymasterI didn’t take Plowboy’s story to mean he was a cave man among cave men.
Such criticism of anyone’s methods that have lead in a very proven way to the success of that groups level of actually working their horses – is unwarranted to say the least. It simply is YOUR opinion Manes and Tails….
Just because it was titled “Old School” doesn’t mean the folks don’t have a relationship with their horses. They speak the language of equis and they speak through the body language of horsemen. Their horses are responding to good instruction and in this case, as in most others that actually work their horses – the form is followed by function. They actually get something done in the process, which is the only reason anyone should have a work horse in the first place.
I think the title “Old School” is more of a reference to doing things in a neighborly, cultural, community based way of working with folks of common interest that live close by. That is what makes it traditional and old school. Their methods of training are modern, successful and until someone does at least that much themselves then their criticism is usually to be taken with a grain of salt.
I agree that you (Manes and Tails) should share your methods and techniques of your driving trainer, we are all open to learn.
This is of course just MY opinion. I think all of this sharing about training is beneficial to everyone that has a young horse that needs training or is just working horses themselves and wants to learn from others experience. This is particularly important if the horse is expected to be a productive working animal.
Negative criticism is not beneficial to anyone. Constructive criticism may be beneficial. No-one on this site claims to be a professional trainer, so teach us…..don’t dish us, please.
Gabe AyersKeymasterDon,
Chad is headed to Canandaygua misspelled I’m sure, but that is the name of his home town. He is checking out some place that he could relocate to and do his work of restorative forestry and maybe a little farming. I will give him your contact info and welcoming words. Thanks man.He is actually going over the border to check out a stallion for me that is in Ontario. I hope that he will be of acceptable size and disposition to come south and improve our out crossing on our mares that are kin to our current sire Rudy. Of course hopefully we can afford him too.
The horses name he will be looking at is Cygnus of Bathhurst. He looks really good in photos.
It becomes necessary to bring in some new blood after having a stallion stand for a dozen years or so in a particular area. Having bred these horses since 78, leads to a few hundred horses in the area and some attention to the breeding of unrelated horses to keep size and diversity in the herd. Rudy, our current sire, is about the fourth stud horse we have kept for a while. His photo is in the archives here working in the garden last spring. He also won the state fair of Va. pulling contest with his partner Wedge in 05. I have a photo of that effort I should post also.
We have many successful and highly productive cross bred Suffolk horses in our group of Biological Woodsmen. Some day I would like to write stories about all these animals and their contribution to this work. It is quite often the choice of many practitioners to not have registered animals for the obvious reason of lower start up cost. The hybrids can be super animals and prove themselves to the tasks of the heavy work as well as longevity in service.
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