[Gabe Ayers]

Pete has been sold.

[Gabe Ayers]

I had an interesting day in the woods today, one which got me thinking about the earlier part of this thread about which tools to use in the woods for animal powered woods work. I have a muddy spot in my main sled trail, as the snow has melted and the ground is thawing. The biggest problem is not the mud but the off angle slope of the turn at that spot. The trail runs thru a break in an old stone wall at this spot, and the slope of ground and the frozen part of the old stone wall pushes my sled at an angle perpendicular to the downhill direction of travel on the trail. Over the past couple of days I have flipped the loaded sled several times here. I tried filling up the low spot with spruce and pine sluice logs, but the runner still sinks and creates a problem, not to mention the difficult footing for the team. In a normal winter snow would have filled this gap but not this winter. Each time the sled turned over, I had to unhook the horses and skid each log down to the landing on the ground, which is not much fun for man or beast! So, after some choice words and wringing of hands, I switched to my arch. I do not usually use the arch in the winter, due to deep snow, but this year that has been no problem. I have been averaging about 1300 bf a day with the sled, and I was curious to see how the arch would compare in terms of daily totals. Today, with the arch, we pulled almost twice as much as we had been averaging. Now, this section is a bit closer to the landing and the pine here is perfect for arch loads with 3 16′ logs each trip. I made 7 trips down today, with loads of 135-410 bf each, and the total came out to be 2225 bf. The horses pulled each more easily than they had with the sled, but they had to expend more energy with more trips up and down the hill from stand to landing. In terms of my efforts, I did have to make more trips but it is far easier to use the arch where I did not have to load the pine up on the bunk. Also, it was nice to be able to skid and forward with the arch, rather than ground skidding and then forwarding with the sled. I think that this example illustrates the need to be flexible with your tools and techniques in the woods with animals. If you stick to the same tool every day you may be not making the most of your animal power. Log type and size, distance to the landing, topography, snow conditions, etc. all vary location to location and even day to day. I may go back to the sled when and if we get some more snow this winter, but for now the arch seems to be the right tool.
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

Andy-
Does she stand for trimming and shoeing without stocks? I have a team already, but maybe in the market come spring. I log full time with horses and do lots of work here at home as well – spreading, harrowing, firewood, etc. Have you logged with her at all?
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

Tom-
I ask my team to pull trees down on a regular basis, particularly when the stand is tight. The more times we do it, the more comfortable they become. In terms of making it an appropriate task for them, I have to make sure they can move it before I hook, and only experience will tell you that. I make sure the hinge is completely cut, and I angle the edge of the stump below the face cut to make it easier to slide off. Also, in almost all cases I use a rolling hitch and pull at an angle so I can roll the top of the tree away from the hang up if it is at the top. Some times it is smart of hook the chain long to make allow the butt to travel as it comes off the stump without running up on the horses or pulling the chain too tight. In all cases, I make sure they are warmed up before I ask them to yank on a big one, but I don’ think it is a bad practice to make a habit of pulling with your team. If I can’t get one down, I move on to a small log that they can easily move to make sure their confidence remains high. In the end, to make it safe you have to know your team and recognize when they are capable of moving the hanger and when your winch might be a better, safer, choice. Of course, those of us with animals in the woods are such excellent fellers that we never get anything hung up in the first place, right?
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

My sled has a bunk placed in a position similar to Carl’s design, and it was built from Carl’s plans. Before John and I rebuilt the sled, the bunk was centered on the runners. Having used both arrangements in succcessive winters, I can tell you that on snow and ice the new sled is much, much easier for the horses to get moving. The increased lift really does make a difference. I have not use it much on dry ground, but from what I have done I have noticed that the smaller amount of runner behind the bunk makes the sled turn more easily.
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

Tom-
I really like using some type of forwarding tool in the woods – sled, scoot, or the like. That way, my team gets to stand and rest while I load the logs onto my sled, and they stay fresh longer than if I was simply skidding each load from stump to landing. The go-devil is cumbersome to use for each load, and I have found that it is hard to get two logs on it side by side. I have found that tool useful with a single horse for skidding larger logs that would be bear to skid on the ground. In the summer with the arch, the equations changes significantly because I can get much larger logs or sticks with multiple logs. For example, last summer we were in red spruce and it was possible to skid 50′ or more of spruce in one load, as long as we did not damage other trees on the way out. From there, a tractor powered forwarder took the logs to the landing. In this case, I had to be careful about giving the team time to rest between loads. I guess in the end it is best to have a variety of tools and strategies at your disposal and then pick what works best for each situation. Do you have a scoot or sled you could use for that job?
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

Jared-
The fellow here in VT that I bought one of my geldings from had two of the same crosses (suffolk/cleveland bay) at the time, though I am not sure if they came from Hammond’s place or not. The were nice looking horses, though slight of build. He was using them to mow hay, spread manure, and for some firewood use, but not for much heavy work. Cleveland bays are a carriage type horse from England, and the breeding stock is still maintained there by the gov’t (they pull the royalty around in their fancy carriages).
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

Welcome to the forum. Good luck with the farm and the new team. If you can post some pics. Kevin

[Gabe Ayers]

I think my bridles both have what are called square blinders. I have always run my horses with them, and I find them to be helpful. Not so much for more focus on the part of the horses as much as for some protection for their eyes when we are working in tight trees. John Plowden has worked one of his horses without them with some success, so it might be worth checking with him for more details on this question.
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

Ditto on Carl’s comments, as John and I made almost the same calculations for my sled. I suppose in the end it does not make much difference on the length as long as you maximize any good curve you have in your runner blanks from which you cut the final shape for the runners. The oak on my sled had some upward sloping grain in the wood, but not a whole lot, and they are plenty strong enough to do the job.
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

Look on Jason Rutledge’s FB page for video. He just got one last summer and has posted a few videos of it in use. They seem to like it quite a bit. Kevin

[Gabe Ayers]

I agree with you two. I think you are foolish to wear chaps that don’t cover your lower leg and top of the boot. Those are the most likely places to get cut with a saw, particularly when limbing.
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

George-
I have runners that are just about 6 feet long. This length gives several advantages. First, the tool fits in the back of my short bed pick-up and I can still shut the tailgate. This is of great advantage to me as I am always on the move with my sled for work. Second, and more importantly, the shorter runners make the sled much easier to turn and maneuver. My runners are basically 4×6 with a moccasin (the steel shoe is 3″ wide on the bottom), and I get plenty of float without the added weight and length of a longer runner. When you speak to John, run this question by him, but I think you will get a similar answer. Carl, do you agree here?
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

Thanks for posting, good article.

http://m.pressrepublican.com/pr/pm_105870/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=UtAaEWwC

[Gabe Ayers]

I think I can do either, but Sunday is best.
-Brad

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