[Anne]

In short:
Fist you have an animal with a lot of respect and no trust
Next you have an animal with a lot of trust and no respect
And after two years both of you have both. Trust and respect.

[Anne]

To me he seems not so dramatic. Most of the animals I have trained had to learn leading twice. They walk nicely when they are small calves. Then at about 10 month-1,5 years they often refuse to walk. Sometimes you cant even get them out of the pasture any more. They don^t want to leave the herd anymore. During that period I train them in the pasture / close to the others. Left turn, right turn, get up and whoa. From time to time I try if they are willing to walk again. And one day the will walk again. It^s a period. They outgrow it.
When they start to butt, I most times ignore it and simply correct their position. I put the head away from me and step to their side. If they allow me to stay there I scratch them. I show them, that I^m interested in social licking, but not interested in had butting or play fighting.
At the same time I train them to step back.
I reward them, if they step back.
Slow by slow he will connect stepping back with the reward and forget about being aggressive.

My goal is to develop a relationship, that is based on trust and respect.
Being cruel is not helpful.
Most cattle have a lot of respect in the beginning. Especially if they are older when the training begins. Some can^t be touched. So I try to gain their trust first. I brush them a lot and train them to follow me. Get up. Who. Left turn. Are the first things I train them. (following commands)

After a while they loose their fear and get enthusiastic: “Hey, I can understand humans! Hey I know, which movement she is doing next! She is even doing social licking. May be she will play with me. May be, she will fight with me…”
This is what your calf is asking now.

I personally play with mine. I run around with them and let them buck around me. But I dont want to fight with them. So I avoid to stay frontal to them. I correct their position, if they butt me and train them to step back and to do the right turn. (go away movements)

If I got their trust it is time to maintain respect.
But I dont have to be cruel. I only have to be patient and consistent. I want them to respect my personal space. That^s all. If they don^t do it, I imitate the sound of an angry animal and make ssssst. I correct my position to the animal and step to it^s side. Sometimes I let them step back, or I ignore them. And I add speed and play with them. I don^t want to fight with them. But I want to interact with them. So I offer something else. Either playing/ running or brushing.

Stepping back is connected with the fighting situation, because one animal is pushing the other one away. So the often get angry if you want them to step back. It^s important to avoid this. So I reward them immediately (after one, or to steps). And try to get one more step next time.
Sometimes it is best to train them to step back in a relaxed situation and to ignore the butting. Most times they are simply full of joy to see you. So they jump around you and offer some games. So I open the gate and run around with them. I suppose he is a fast thinking animal. So give him something to think, and something new to play with. And other cattle who fight with him.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 8 months ago by Anne.

[Anne]

Outgrown Brown Swiss oxen are very huge. Lot^s of problems (health problems, equipment problems, training problems) appear due to their size. All equipment is needed XXL.
If you like Brown Swiss, but don^t need elephants I would think about training females.

– they have a handy size but are large enough to get the work done
– they live longer
– they need less yokes (because they don^t get that huge)
– you can keep them with or without calves
– without calves there will be more flesh/ muscles on them and there is no udder or pregnancy that must be considered
– if you fail in training them, they still can be sold as milking cows
– you can keep a daughter or a son of the animal you like most and work them as a team.

[Anne]

Hello Kevin!

To me switching sides was only helpful if the less dominant animal got fearful because it feels to much pressure in the position between me and the dominant animal.
It is not helpful, if the animals simply don^t like each other well enough.
Or if one is significant faster than the other one (while walking alone).

If I switch sides I first walk them uphill along a fence.

[Anne]

He prints and sells them on his own. So the only way is to sent him an email:

rolf.minhorst@t-online.de

[Anne]

Are Josephs hooves ok?

Do they have a similar walking speed, if you walk with them single?

I would put the two which match in speed together as a team and work the third one single.

Training can influence a lot, but you will never make a fast animal out of a slow one, or a slow one out of a fast. If their working speed is to different, they will never make a happy team.

[Anne]

Hallo Tim,

Great work!! In the woods as well as in front of the computer!!

Thanks a lot!

Anne

[Anne]

Hallo Tim,

Let me know, if your plans about comparing different yoke systems are getting concrete. I would be very interested in the results.
If needed, I could probably ship you a three pad collar (or a plan how to build one), a foreheadyoke, a closed collar and a swiss neck yoke called “Halsknebeljoch”.

And I think you should get in touch with Manu Fleurentdidier. He and his group are trying to improve the yoke in France.

http://www.lanouvellerepublique.fr/vienne/ACTUALITE/Infos-Departementales/Joug-contre-joug

[Anne]

Hallo Tim,

Let me know, if your plans about comparing different yoke systems are getting concrete. I would be very interested in the results.
If needed, I could probably ship you a three pad collar (or a plan how to build one), a foreheadyoke, a closed collar and a swiss neck yoke called “Halsknebeljoch”.

And I think you should get in touch with Manu Fleurentdidier. He and his group are trying to improve the yoke in France.

http://www.lanouvellerepublique.fr/vienne/ACTUALITE/Infos-Departementales/Joug-contre-joug

[Anne]

The hames of most three pad collars are only 62 cm long and fit only small sized animals. If the animal is large you will have to build a new one. I find it difficult to adjust it to an animal with a wide strong neck. In that case a closed collar works better. I own a young steer (Friedolin), which has outgrown all my harnesses. He is polled. So I cant use a foreheadyoke, which would have the advantage, that it might fit for the longest time, because his head wont grow and change as much as the rest of him! I also like the light wight of the foreheadyoke…

Each yoking system has advantages and disadvantages. Sometimes it is an advantage to have the team fixed together: training, handling, only one chain, heavy pull, two wheeled wagon … . Sometimes it is a disadvantage: walking/ working parallel to a mountain, different sized animals, falling load, …

If you compare different topics: endurance, walking speed, ability for heavy pulling, working single, working as a team,… you will have different results.

Philippe Kuhlmann is working his animals with several kinds of yokes and decides from situation to situation. He uses the three pad collar for his cows, a full padded collar if the works with one ox or a bull in the wood, the head yoke if heis training young animals …
If he wants them to be able to work with different harnesses, he teaches them to work with the headyoke first. If the animal has learned to work with a single headyoke first, it will accept it as well as a collar system. But if it has firstlearned to work with the collar, it will refuse to work with the headyoke.
There are so many details and single situations, that I will have to compare yokes, for the rest of my life! 🙂

[Anne]

The hames of most three pad collars are only 62 cm long and fit only small sized animals. If the animal is large you will have to build a new one. I find it difficult to adjust it to an animal with a wide strong neck. In that case a closed collar works better. I own a young steer (Friedolin), which has outgrown all my harnesses. He is polled. So I cant use a foreheadyoke, which would have the advantage, that it might fit for the longest time, because his head wont grow and change as much as the rest of him! I also like the light wight of the foreheadyoke…

Each yoking system has advantages and disadvantages. Sometimes it is an advantage to have the team fixed together: training, handling, only one chain, heavy pull, two wheeled wagon … . Sometimes it is a disadvantage: walking/ working parallel to a mountain, different sized animals, falling load, …

If you compare different topics: endurance, walking speed, ability for heavy pulling, working single, working as a team,… you will have different results.

Philippe Kuhlmann is working his animals with several kinds of yokes and decides from situation to situation. He uses the three pad collar for his cows, a full padded collar if the works with one ox or a bull in the wood, the head yoke if heis training young animals …
If he wants them to be able to work with different harnesses, he teaches them to work with the headyoke first. If the animal has learned to work with a single headyoke first, it will accept it as well as a collar system. But if it has firstlearned to work with the collar, it will refuse to work with the headyoke.
There are so many details and single situations, that I will have to compare yokes, for the rest of my life! 🙂

[Anne]

From my point of view each yoking system has it´s pros and cons.
If you want to compare them, you will have to consider the whole context:

– who is using them
– for which task
– for which animals
– under which circumstances

During the circumstances of a pulling contest (two strong, well matched oxen, heavy load on on a sled, flat,even,smooth ground) the use of a neckyoke has the advantage, that the animals are firmly fixed together, which makes it easier for them to synchronise their movements.

But it would be at least particulary wrong to come to the conclusion, that the headyoke must be the best yoking system for everyone everywhere.

Because: Change the circumstances:

Take a two wheeled wagon. If you now take a headyoke, the animals will not only have to pull the load. – They will also have to carry it on their nape. Make another change: Bad street with lot´s of holes.
No the use of a headyoke will get cruel for the animals. Each hole in the street will be a beat on their nape.

Leave the street. Add mountains, …

There are lots of situations in which a headyoke wont be the best choice.

And if your animals dont have horns, or are different in size, you cant use it at all.

My suggestion, if you compare yokes:

Dont think only about the strongest and best matched teams under ideal situations.

Think also about skinny weak animals. – And skinny weak owners like me 🙂

A skinny cow will be able to work longer and harder with a three pad collar, than with a single headyoke.

The weakest animal will be the one, that profits most from a good harness. The three pad collar was designed for cows. So far I havent seen one, that is large enough to fit for an ox.

[Anne]

From my point of view each yoking system has it´s pros and cons.
If you want to compare them, you will have to consider the whole context:

– who is using them
– for which task
– for which animals
– under which circumstances

During the circumstances of a pulling contest (two strong, well matched oxen, heavy load on on a sled, flat,even,smooth ground) the use of a neckyoke has the advantage, that the animals are firmly fixed together, which makes it easier for them to synchronise their movements.

But it would be at least particulary wrong to come to the conclusion, that the headyoke must be the best yoking system for everyone everywhere.

Because: Change the circumstances:

Take a two wheeled wagon. If you now take a headyoke, the animals will not only have to pull the load. – They will also have to carry it on their nape. Make another change: Bad street with lot´s of holes.
No the use of a headyoke will get cruel for the animals. Each hole in the street will be a beat on their nape.

Leave the street. Add mountains, …

There are lots of situations in which a headyoke wont be the best choice.

And if your animals dont have horns, or are different in size, you cant use it at all.

My suggestion, if you compare yokes:

Dont think only about the strongest and best matched teams under ideal situations.

Think also about skinny weak animals. – And skinny weak owners like me 🙂

A skinny cow will be able to work longer and harder with a three pad collar, than with a single headyoke.

The weakest animal will be the one, that profits most from a good harness. The three pad collar was designed for cows. So far I havent seen one, that is large enough to fit for an ox.

[Anne]

More pics:
http://www.razyboard.com/system/morethread-ochsentreffen-im-ecomuse-dundquot-alsace-2011-zugrinder-244288-6086829-0.html

Greetings,
Anne

[Anne]

team of six oxen yoked up together for the first time:

new yoke:

[Author]

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