[Carl Russell]

My own personal opinion is that I can’t do any work with my horses if they don’t stand. When I need them to stand that is what they should be doing. It is a lot easier to say than do, but when you get it in your head what you expect from the horse, and show them, then when you say whoa they will stand.

That is not to say that they should ever be trusted, but I can’t load my wagon with manure if I’ve got my lines in one hand, and when I say whoa, that is their job, and it is up to me to do, before hand, what needs to be done so that they understand what to do.

One of the biggest draw-backs to developing the skills required for those small odd jobs, is the fact that they are required to do the jobs in the first place. When the horses are left un-worked until the job just has to be done, then they don’t have the chance to practice, and therefore are potentially dangerous and unruly.

I find success comes from regular harnessing and hitching, and the exercise of even just menial endeavors, just to get into the rhythm. If you wait until you need them to stand before you practice it, it will invariably not work.

I would have to say that these are the reasons why machinery has been so successful. You can have a different machine to do different jobs. You can turn it off, or turn it on whenever it is needed. The difference is that you pay for the engineering and manufacturing up front with the machine, and you make it up as you go along with the animals. They are two completely different mindsets, and often difficult to reconcile.

Sometimes it feels like I spent more time harnessing then I did working, but I got something done.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

This is another great thread. It got me thinking a lot about haying again. I have lost some pasture due to neighbors selling land, and we have more animals now so we pasture all that I used to hay, and buy square bales from one of our neighbors. It will be a while before my new clearings will be good enough pasture to allow me to cut hay, but it is one of my favorite farming exercises.

When I first bought a horse to go logging, I was committed from the get-go to the low impact, earth-based power, but I was not really aware of how personally involved I would become with the work I would do with draft animals. As time went on I realized that the most stimulating aspect to working with animals was the craft, the intimate personal creativity that underlies every activity. It is not only the subtleties of expression and relation to the animals, but the subtle awareness, understandings, and decisions that I have to make with the crop, or garden, or woodlot.

Although time of cutting may make very little difference in the overall feed value of the grass as hay, for me it was one of those hallmarks of how I personally involved myself with the crop. There are many sensory impressions that make haying a special undertaking. Feeling as though I was capturing the day’s growth flush in the plant was a very important place to start.

Also, although the old New Idea definitely needed to be finessed through heavy grass that was lodged, I always really enjoyed watching the grass fall, and smelling the fresh juices immediately seeping into the air. The smell of drying grass, and fresh hay are constantly changing, and handling it in the baking sun, always locked into my consciousness a sense of summer, so that even in the depth of winter when I forked down a pile and fed it out in the dim glow inside the stable with cold winds blowing outside, I could still feel it.

It’s that continuum of experience that would really bring home the value of the work for me. Feeling that, smelling that, living in that crop, and the work I put into it, the care I put into it, the subtle decisions that I took seriously, would all come to fruition as I fed it to my animals in preparation for another season to capture it again. I never figured that I made much more than $5.00/hour when I was haying, but I also believe that I couldn’t replace that crop with money alone.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Welcome. We’ld love to hear more about what you’ve seen for draft animal power in those regions. I’m sure you’ll get some contacts through this site. Good luck, Carl

[Carl Russell]

ngcmcn;9030 wrote:

Carl, how would you stack in the field to shed rain?

Neal maine

I would first rake up double windrows, most likely too much hay for a baler, then I would move hay in to a central place using perhaps 50 feet of the row, 25-30 each side of the stack. I did it all with pitch fork so I stayed within easy walking/carrying distance. I would layer the stacks just like loading, and make them into rounded mounds 6-10 high, pulling hay down on the sides to for better shedding. This way even after three days or rain I would lose very little. I usually tossed it out after rain though just to prevent mold, before putting it in the barn.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I am one who says “gotta ted hay”. I never had to cover 20 acres, but I always had a hard time laying down a second crop before the first was picked up. IF there was a stretch of trustworthy weather, I would mow between tedding on day 2, especially in that type of weather I might have been able to drop a tedding. Tough to get that kind of weather in June in Vermont, so I usually had a pretty heavy crop in late June-early July, but I was feeding horses mostly.

One thing I have found, is that hay that is mowed with a sickle bar and not with a conditioner will retain its leaves and green-ness better, even after being baled, which really helps palatability and feed value.

I would mow late in the day, or at least after noon, so the grass is at it’s richest. In really hot weather, I liked to mow in the evening, and in rainy weather that was going to break the next, I would mow in the rain.

Always tedded starting by 10-11 am on day 2, and then again by 3-4pm. I would check it 10-11am day three, depending on soil moisture, crop density, and sun angle, or humidity, I would either windrow it, or ted once more, then rake by afternoon.

I never baled, but would make stacks from the windrows, which I did all by hand, without the horses in the field, then when I picked up, I just had to move horses from stack to stack. Also that way evening dew, or even rain would not affect the hay too much. Windrowing hay is better than leaving it flat in the rain, but I found that in stacks it was even better. I know that won’t apply to you using a baler.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I didn’t use a Grimm, but I have two Nicholson’s. I think the main difference is three versus four bars.

I found them to be really good on level even ground, but humps and hollows will reek havoc. Also I had problems in heavy first cut, they just don’t tear apart the clumps, especially if you have bedstraw. I always carried a pitch fork anyway, and would stop every so often, let the horses stand and toss out the clumps by hand.

Tedding across your swaths works well, as does an “X” pattern which gives double coverage and works against the lay from the first pass.

Also used an old New Idea to ted, and I liked it too. It was/is my side delivery rake anyway, so it was no hardship, but as Donn says both tools have their distinct benefits.

I also used to use the side delivery for the final drying, as raking up the windrows really fluffs up the hay and gets the air to it.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I’ll be right over. I’ll call first.
Carl

[Carl Russell]

Any Drive Caulk shoes? Sizes 5-7?

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Ground skidding is a good place to start for both you and the horse. It is by far the least expensive way to get started, and will help to illuminate for you the basics of using a horse in the woods.

That being said, you most likely quickly find limitations to functionality, operation efficiency, and safety, which will be better dealt with by using some sort of arch/cart, and/or sled, or wagon.

Keep in mind that ground skidding not only potentially causes more environmental impact, it also gets more dirt/gravel on your wood which can cause efficiency challenges at the processing end.

I started cheap, and worked with what I could afford until I could afford a better alternative, and have just kept trying to improve. Creating some utopian starting point in terms of needed equipment can quickly break the bank, AND I have seen many many beginners put the cart before the horse so to speak, by purchasing equipment that they not only couldn’t afford based on their knowledge/ability or functional capability(earning capacity), but which may not have really fit the need that they had.

Use ground skidding to get started, and grow from there. That’s my perspective.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Good discussion folks. As I have no application for more than 2, I had not been reading here, so I just picked up on the mention of the field days. I expect Andre, Sam, and Bob Crichton to all have multiples there this fall. I will definitely work out a workshop on hitching, possibly starting with 1, and moving on up to 8, 3 hr intensive Sat am.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Here is a PDF of my timber sale contract.

[Carl Russell]

Thanks James, I have a wooden beam two way, but I have a couple of leads on just what I want.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Welcome Ixy. Glad to know something about you. Sounds like you’ve got a good start. Please post some more details about your current and future farming enterprise. We like to know that animal power is futuristic, not just historic.

Oil is Over, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Thanks Ben, Welcome, and hope to hear more from you, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Hey Ben, there is no doubt that you can handle all that is involved in putting together a site, but I have had pretty good result from our web designer. I am pretty much a do-it-myselfer, but I was dead set against using the internet for anything up until about 2 years ago, so I really didn’t have a good sense of where to start. It may be difficult in this day of the professional designer to find one that will educate you while designing for you, possibly a college student, but in Vermont there are several designer companies that advertise making a personally accessible website for you.

I just like to browse through other websites looking at what other people do. It is really important though that you are able to edit your site easily because I find myself constantly tweeking what I just did.

Good luck, make sure you send us a link when you get it on-line.
Carl

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