[Carl Russell]

Hey Ira, I think there is common misunderstanding about the relationship between the belly band, pack pad, d-ring, and front trace, so that it may appear to some, that weight added to the front side strap goes to the d-ring then back to the collar.

I know that you are aware of this, but I’ll throw in my two cents about d-ring adjustment.

If the collar is fit appropriately, and the back pad is adjusted so that the front trace is 90* off the hame, with a snug belly band then all weight on the front side strap goes directly to the back pad, because it is off-set by weight from the rear trace.

If the back pad is too loose, back side straps loose, britchen not high enough, and the traces are not hitched tight enough, pole weight will pull down on the front trace changing the angle at the hame, and putting weight on the collar/neck.

Collar fit, front trace 90* off hames, back pad and belly band snug, front side straps only extend to below the bottom of the collar, back side straps snug, britchen snug and up above the action with the side ring above the stifle, and traces hitched as tight as humanly possible, then the pole will float, and ALL the weight will be born on the back pad.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Great points Bivol.

It is so amazing to me that many of the folks on this site can imagine the effects of peak oil, and can embrace life with limited petroleum, or even without completely, while so so many others participants in the modern culture are just waiting for the next great fix. Thanks for all you excellent posts about working cattle.

Take care, Carl

[Carl Russell]

No mailing list available here, only individuals who post their addresses on the member profile list.

Please feel free to mail checks payable to Carl Russell and Lisa McCrory, NEAPFD, or Earthwise Farm & Forest, at 341 MacIntosh Hill Rd., Randolph, VT 05060.

Thank you very much, Carl

[Carl Russell]

I like the ideas about printing material, and selling ad space, but both of those ideas require additional time on my part, which ads cost too. So I will be exploring those avenues as we move forward, I also will extend the opportunity to users to fund this site through donations. Thanks for the feed-back, and keep it coming. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Excellent pix Jenn,
The collar appears to fit very well with the pad. In truth, tight is better than loose.

I have always used collar pads, mostly to extend the life of the collar, but I know those who never use them. Of more concern is whether the structure of the collar can live up to the strain of work. It looks good enough for this exercise, I didn’t get a chance to appraise it in the sale. I especially like the duct tape. It’ll look like you’ve been at it for years.

Your initiative is great, as like everything else with training, if you wait till the last minute, you have an obstacle, whereas starting long before necessary, when you need the horse, he will not know any different.

I know it is hard to justify expenses for equipment that will be grown out of, but good equipment well-maintained will retain its value, and will be much more valuable to you if you want to start exposing Peanut to real work. He’s certainly big enough.

Thanks for starting this thread, Carl

[Carl Russell]

These are good photos showing the redirection of weight from pole to back pad. As Neils says, sometimes you just see what you want to see.

Please don’t play around disconnecting harness parts. Remain safe.

There are many years of misinformed cultural habit about the use of the d-ring harness. Many people see no difference, and that is that. Those of us who have been informed can share, but we don’t need to start another cat fight over personal preferences.

If as teamsters we are truly interested in the comfort of our working horses, then exploring the possibility that weight can be taken off the collars when the d-ring harness is correctly fit would seem to be a reasonable pursuit.

The fact of the matter is, when properly adjusted the d-ring completely eliminates tongue weight from the collars. Additionally, a person 200 lbs or more should be able to sit on the end of the pole (without lazy straps), and their weight will also be born exclusively on the back pad.

Keep up the good work, Carl

[Carl Russell]

I think that a good discussion sometimes has to get around a few tough spots, misunderstandings, and frustrations, but it is obvious that Taylor was not looking for the help, no matter how valuable it is.

I think this thread is turning into more of an opportunity to poke at a sore than to really enlighten any body, and would like to see it stop.

If someone with knowledge and pix wants to start a thread about proper collar fitting, that would be great. I think we all could gain from that, without having to use anybody as an example of what not to do.

Thanks to you all for trying to make this work in your own ways, but enough is enough.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I was contacted as well, and asked him to send an advertisement and timber sale prospectus, but he seems to be resisting. There may be a reason why only 2 loggers have looked at it. He can post the info here. and I know he will get response.
Carl

[Carl Russell]

I don’t mean to bat this around so much, but actually the distinction is more than semantic. To see value in something is much different than assuming a negative value in something else. Eliminating a competitor, regardless of species, is much different than ear-marking one species as a detractor.

I have learned that the act of harvest, or elimination, has much different impact on the practitioner when the choice is based on the positive appraisal of potential in a choice, as apposed to the approach that is motivated by an effort to eradicate. One is an act of acceptance, one is an act of intolerance.

I’m glad your getting so much reward from your work, Carl

[Carl Russell]

I think I intended to say that i find it uncomfortable to assign negative value. In other words, when making decisions about land use, and resource management, I recognize the potential to increased the value for a particular crop, or land-use, or individual “crop tree”, as it pertains to my objective, bearing in mind that it is MY objective. That being said I evaluate obstacles and competitors in relation to that chosen use, or individual, and determine what my approach will be. I do not have a set of biases against particular species, or uses, which is the negative evaluation that I was referring to.

I have no problem with some one trying to eliminate buckthorn, for example, I just think that it should be clear, that it is to satisfy a human objective, and shouldn’t be justified as an attempt to regain a natural species composition.

There are places where I eliminate all sorts of plants, animals, and other organisms, in the name of my objectives. Some might argue, that because I am a part of the natural world, then that is natural, but I think being human allows me to take responsibility for my actions, and being only a small participant , I feel that I should keep my impact small too.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Jenn,
It is my own (possibly isolated) opinion that the concept of invasive non-native species is entirely human, and is derived from a state of denial about #1.the constant ecological transition around us that we try to lock into categorized status because of our desire for consistency, #2. the negative impact that we have had on our ecosystem that has created the weakness that is being capitalized on by these species that are new to our area.

There are many “invasive” species in VT. There is a huge militant effort to eradicate these intruders.

My own personal growth, has lead me to understand that as a human interacting with, and dependent on, my ecological surroundings, that like the healing of a wound on my own body, there are processes inherent in the system, that may take longer, or do things that I don’t understand, but the ultimate result will only present itself through a patient acceptance of the process.

I find it very uncomfortable to assign negative values to any organisms, regardless of how they came to be components of the present situation. In my mind humans tend to waste a lot of time and energy creating a hierarchy of individual value, and then use it to motivate their efforts to establish this perceived reality.

There are no weeds. (read no retards, no diseases, no filth, no kings!!!)

See you this weekend, Carl

[Carl Russell]

jenjudkins;2732 wrote:

……I’m managing a couple of acres of woods. I hesitate to call it a forest, given its size but it is connected to a much larger parcel of forest, probably hundreds of acres. My goals have nothing to do with money, or production of fuel, but are related more to conserving the natural state of the forest. I’d like to be able to walk through these woods unencumbered by the brush, namely one invasive buckthorn species. So there are two goals….first to irradicate the invasive species (it is on the NH list, I checked), if that is possible and second to apply some forestry to restore what is left (that part will likely take some training and probably some help down the road).

My plan, so far invloves some goats, who seem to love the buckthorn leaves. ……

Jenn this really looks like one of the most conflicted statements that I have ever read. Natural state=goats?

The “forest” is not a plot of land, it is an ecological state. There is no native forest. This is an entirely human concept. Natural states are always in transition. All species are invasive in nature, at one point or another. The solution to managing forests “naturally” is not to wage war against the present state, but to limit impact on the process, so that site can reach it’s most vital condition, naturally.

The “invasives” that people are so upset about are just taking advantage of weaknesses in the condition of our ecosystem after generations of over-use. There is no way that buckthorn, or any other species is going to out compete sugar maples that are allowed to grow in a naturally high stocking. At some point in a natural forest you will either have to walk encumbered by underbrush, or dead-fall.

Try entering those woods with an open heart to all the species represented there, and see whether that feels better than the feeling of doing battle. I believe strongly that the present is full of truth. Judging the current state based on a picture of the past, or an image of a possible future, are distracting efforts.

The natural response to disturbance is rapid regrowth of opportunistic organisms. Often their work is necessary to set up the future condition successfully. The only time I cut invasives is when they are in direct competition with crop trees, otherwise they are welcome components.

Don’t blame the buckthorn for human error. Pay attention to it, and try to understand it for what it is.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Taylor,
Thanks for the comments about feed-back. I think it’s important to remember that while we are trying to help, to not be condescending. I hope that your comments will cause folks to take measure of the impact of their words.

Glad to see a fjord that works for a living. Seen a lot of norwegian pasture pets around here.

Take care, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Sure Ron,
It would be good to read your poetry. Keep us up to date on your progress.
Carl

[Carl Russell]

No ruffles feathered here.

Just know that carbon is only part of the equation. Unfortunately, it is a measurable part, and therefore in our modern scientifically unbalanced world, it gets a lot of attention.

In terms of the ecological balance that is disrupted, currently being measured, and evaluated using the carbon cycle, there are many aspects beyond our current understanding.

We live in a world where only those things that are measurable have value, failing to recognize that uncertainty, or the unknown, cannot be delegated a percentage as it relates to certainty, or the known.

The secret as I see it, is not in trying to justify our practice in measurable units, but using our innate abilities as participant organisms in a natural system to observe the processes that are fundamentally entrenched in the ecosystems that we depend on, and allow them to continue to function, regardless of whether we ever fully understand, or can measure, them by managing our impact on them.

This is the kind of conversation that must be linked to animal powered forestry. I am very pleased that we have this site to host it, and to share it with others.

Carl

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