[Andy Carson]

I had heard that Watt measured pony’s pulling carts out of mines and increased that force by 50% to estimate “horsepower.” Apparently that’s only one story…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower
Another story was that Watt measured the power a brewery horse (whatever that is) produced by pulling 180 pounds draft at a given speed and set that equal to 1 HP. Either way, the wikipedia article also mentioned an article by R. D. Stevenson and R. J. Wassersug estimating that one “average” horse does indeed produce 1 HP. The term “average” jumped out at me. Especially because the article also mentioned an “average” human can produce 0.1 HP indefinately. This makes good sense, as many humans are about 1/10 the size of a draft horse. Interestingly, the article also mentions that a trained human athelete can produce 0.3 HP for several hours. If humans can triple thier sustained output with training, I would imagine animals have a similar capacity to double or even triple thier power output with training. If so, a conditioned team of horses could pull more than the predicted 360 pounds all day (180×2). and could actually pull a 12 inch plow with a draft of 600-800 pounds. I think this makes a lot of sense and seems to match with reality.

[Andy Carson]

This is a fascinating discussion. Because of the second marker on youtube videos, there is no need to guess at the speed of the pull. I got about 8 seconds on really heavy pulls. Most pulls were faster than this, in the heighborhood of 6 seconds… At any rate, 27.5 feet in 8 seconds is about 2.34 MPH. That comes out to 30.6 HP, or 15.3 HP each. It would also be interesting to estimate the HP that a team can put out on average during a days work. If a team is pulling a 12 inch plow at 6 inches deep (as in the previous posts), the draft might be between 600-800 pounds and the pull might be at 2-3 MPH. If so, that would be an output of between 3.2 and 6.4 HP. That’s less than 10% of the maximum output over a few seconds, but much more than 1 HP each.

[Andy Carson]

Hmmm… I never noticed the hair growing back coarser, but I would not have been likely to notice, as I kept the feather clipped the rest of the time I had this horse. I reclipped when it got about a half inch long or when it seemed like it wasn’t drying well. Clipping is pretty fast and cut my daily grooming time in half. There is no question that for this horse, this was an absolute cure. In fact, at first I only clipped the worst leg (although all legs had a couple lesions). The clipped leg was dry and healing fast within a couple days and the other legs were unchanged. After I saw that, I clipped all the legs and within a week all the lesions were gone and I never saw any sign again. Granted, this is only one horse and is far from a scientific study. I am glad that we can have this clipping/no clipping discussion, this is exactly what I was looking for when I was trying to figure out what to do a couple years ago. As I said, I tried many topical treatments and although they helped a little, they never really got rid of the problem. Maybe other horses respond better to these treatments, I have only had one with moderate feather. FYI, there is more discussion about this topic on rural heritage’s virtual vet messageboard
-search for “scratches”
http://www.ruralheritage.com/messageboard/virtualvet/index1.htm

[Andy Carson]

I had a Belgian a couple years ago that used to get this in the spring when it got wet and muddy. She would get several lesions about the size of a quarter. I tried lots of different soaks, salves and other medications. They were alot of work and helped onyl slightly. In the end, I clipped off her feather and wow that was wonderful!! ALL the lesions were gone in about a week, and NEVER came back. My new horse doesn’t have much feather, and I have never seen any lesions, but I wouldn’t hesitate to clip again at the first sign of trouble.

[Andy Carson]

Yes, I am planning on using natural fertilizers and the ground will just be broke this spring. It is now in alfalfa/grass and has been for a while. I’m not really that diappointed that the plant population using natural fertilizers is likely to be lower as I was having a tough time figuring out how I was going to fit in all the plants recommended for conventional growers and still get a horse down the row… I plan on using a single horse walk behind garden cultivator, the kind with S-tines and wide shovels. Maybe it’s somewhat primative, but I kinda like walking behind my horse and I think it will be flexible for different crops and spacings. It can’t be much more primative than spreading manure with a slip scoop and a harrow. I did that last weekend and had fun, although I took a lot of ribbing for it.

[Andy Carson]

What is the minimum row spacing that you all have had success with? I have seen 36 inches and 40 inches recommended for row crops that will need cultivation, but would like to get away with 30 inchs if possible… 30 inches was pretty easy a few cones for practice, but I wonder about doing an acre of it, I thought I would see what others use…

[Andy Carson]

Thanks for all your advice, I thought I would write an update. I tried many of your suggestions, figured out which work in our situtation, and our work with the harrow has improved alot. I didn’t get a chance to work on the forecart yet, but the harrow is more important for me anyway. For her, the most effective solution was to act as much as possible like she was pulling a heavy load that she is used to. Over the last few days, I was able to really compare the differences in my techniques and expectations with heavy loads compared to light loads. I was suprized at how many differences there were when I took a step back and really looked closely at the two situations. For some reason, I tended to use less line pressure on a light load and asked her to respond quicker than if she was pulling a heavy load. I also tended to ask her to turn tighter and quicker than I would ask if she was pulling something heavy. Additionally, I did not give her any breaks. Incorporating all these changes made her more content with the harrow and I suspect will help in other aspects too. I think she’s still a little bored, but I think I was wrong that the boredom was leading to the misbehavior. Maybe it sounds obvious as I write this now, but it’s great to have people to help figure these problems out with. Thanks again.
-Andy

[Andy Carson]

Thanks for all the thoughts and good suggestions. In the future, I will be less tolerant of her misbehaving under light loads as this seems to be a very reasonable expectation. I didn’t mean to imply that I am dissatisfied with my horse in general, as my feeling are actually quite the opposite, I’ve very proud of her and my progress. She has vastly exceded my expectations for over 90% of what I do with her, and in all jobs that I concider to be medium and heavy work. She has actually shocked me with the amount of work a single horse is capable of doing, especially after she got in shape. Often times I wonder if I ought to be asking a single to pull this much or this long, but as long as she’s not going to hurt herself, I’ll let her do what she loves. In all honesty, this is is where my heart is, and I’m sure she knows that. Although I am relatively new to working draft horses, this horse is the second draft I’ve had. They couldn’t have had more different temperments. My first draft, an older Belgian, was perfectly content and relaxed to walk with light loads like an empty forecart for hours without even a hint of “naughtiness”. My old horse wouldn’t pull half the load my new horse will, but I have directed at least one horse pulling light loads with good results in the past. Honestly, though, I have to admit I am proud of my new horses desire to pull hard and have been very sympathic to her misbeving under light loads (at least in the past). Many times, I am honestly thinking “A pony could do this job” and “Yeah, I know, this is boring.” Sometimes, when the load is light and involves lots of tight turns (like harrowing the arena), I am thinking “this is like asking a powerlifter to dance ballet.” Now that I am thinking about this, I suppose it is silly to think she would not put up on my thoughts and feelings. I’ll have to try to put on a front, but my heart is not really into light work like this and I don’t think hers is either (maybe just because mine isn’t). If I look at is a training drill, I can probably be more engaged, maybe see how straight I can make the lines… It’s probably better that I find some real work, though. Frozen ground and snow puts a damper on many things for me and leads to projects that are not real work, but really more of a training excersice so she’s not out of shape when spring comes. At any rate, thanks again for all your feedback.

[Andy Carson]

Yes, meaningfull work is what the farm is all about. I have spent a year working with my horse mostly to make sure I was serious and this wasn’t a passing fancy of mine. It’s hard to explain all the little reasons I think that she gets bored with light work, but I am very sure that what the problem is. The problem has only goten worse since she has gotten more and more in shape. I suppose that re-harrowing an already smooth arena is innately boring, but pulling the forecart empty doesn’t have to be. It is like pulling teeth to get her to only walk with the cart though, and when i let her trot, she is in shear joy. I had an older Belgian before my current horse that was happy and well behaved walking with an empty forecart for hours, but she wouldn’t pull half the load my new horse will. Maybe that desire to work hard often comes with the downside that they are sometimes not content and relaxed with light jobs. I thought I would ask the more experienced people if thier truly ambitous (and maybe hotter) horses often find it hard to relax with jobs that do not tax them physically. It this was a common in horse of this temperment, I will not spend tons of time trying to put a square peg in a round hole… Especially when there are plenty or “round pegs” out there that are cheap, easy to keep, and would love to be relied upon for only light work.

[Andy Carson]

Thanks, I think some chickens would be useful and could eat some of the crops that don’t sell, or at least don’t sell as I start out. I am really glad I posted this question, everyone has had really great suggestions. Thank you all

[Andy Carson]

I case anyone is curious about horse color genetics, I found this handy-dandy horse color calculator in a search once. I was curious how my Belgian/Perch cross ended up bay, even though neither parent was… The calculator says a Buckskin/Chestnut cross will most likely be Buckskin or Bay, but could end up Palomino, Chestnut, or Black.

http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator3.asp

[Andy Carson]

After some thought this is the plan I have… Some things might be more sellable, but as marketing is such an important part of this adventure, I do believe I am shooting myself in the foot if I grow things I do not personally like. I will hire a local farmer to plow about 3 acres of land. My land is in alfalfa now, and from the looks of it has been alfalfa for a while. I believe the initial beaking into the sod is a big task for one horse. As far as crops, I am going to divide this 3 acres into 6 1/2 acre plots to grow (1) hard red wheat, (2) blue corn, (3) butternut squash, (4) black oil sunflowers, (5) chickpeas, and (6) root vegetables (split carrots, beets, and shallots). I’ll get a mill and see what happens. I contacted a couple local markets, but they weren’t really helpful as I do not plan to become officially organic. Maybe I ought to, but the whole idea of a farm inspector turns me off. Thanks again for all your ideas and suggestions, it’s great to have more experienced people to bounce ideas off of. I thought I would include a picture of my girl, just in case anyone is curious. I hope the photo comes out right.

[Andy Carson]

Thanks again for all the advice. Lots of questions and things to think about. The road side stands around here (western PA) mostly sell sweet corn, and sometimes corn/tomatoes. Rarely anything else, exactly as BF would have predicted. The farmers markets, on the other hand, are richly supplied with a large variety of vegetables, which seem to sell alright. It’s hard to judge based solely on what I see people putting in thier bags, but other crops seem to sell there. I don’t see much kitsch like pumpkins and indian corn at farmers markets, but I do see them at lots of local farms around halloween time. I haven’t seen freshly milled flour at any of these places, but did see it at a local fair where I bought some coarse ground corn meal. It was great. Obviously, not seeing this product means there is opportunity but it could also mean that it doesn’t sell for some reason. I think it’s best to start with a very small patches of all these products and see what sells for me in my situation. I think that where you sell is a very important part of what you can sell. I do wish that I could pawn off this marketing stuff onto someone who is better at selling than me. Maybe I need a partner…

[Andy Carson]

I am wanting something to do every day, but this would be semi-part time. Maybe I ought to grow some field crops and some veggies, to reduce the total amount of labor. I could cut it back to 5 acres if it got to be too much work. Maybe I should think about which veggies require the least TLC but can still be sold in large amounts to the public. Maybe something like Pumpkins or squash? I have grown these in the garden and they were very easy and they certainly sell for alot around Halloween time. I thought about growing a field of oats to feed to the horses, but by the time I buy all the equipment needed to harvest, thresh, and store them, they don’t really pay for themselves… Indian corn and corn stalks sell for more than they ought to (in my mind) around Halloween time and they would be easy to raise. Maybe also a couple fields of something that would be higher value but require more intensive care, like garlic or shallots. I have also thought that carrots could be a good crop, I’ve had lots of luck with them in the garden and draft animals with their low impaction, might be very suitable for these. I have seen alot of sunflowers sold for birdseed and these seem like they might be sellable. Maybe gourds too. These are the main crops I have been thinking about, but I thought I would see if anyone on this board had any ideas.

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