[drafthorsey]

Great question… what’s handy? Down here there’s lot of pipe fencing, but no one recommends used pipe from oil drilling as it gets eaten up with corrosive salts and minerals and wears down quickly. Love a good board fence but can’t afford it. Never tried electrified rope, but how long and under what conditions are you training a horse to know it? Do you guys start with a small area and move outward? And is it flagged for easy visability?

[drafthorsey]

I don’t have a tractor but I’m looking at one to rebuild. One big reason is I’m getting a little longer in the tooth, and next drought has run me out of horses twice since 1997. Well with no horses the dairy farmer comes over and handles the cut/bail chore. Well that costs me a little money and a couple loads of hay. No question the horse is theraputic and quite frankly the pasture looks pretty stupid with nothing but a dozen head of beef.

And I am lucky enough not to be leasing. Been and worked with folks in Wisconsin for 40 years in and around Madison. Don’t know if I’d want your situation as I’ve already had a Dad. In that sense criticism or advice has a cut off point. So which way do you want to push? One way may get you out this lease with a buyout from him, the other way you get to farm the way you feel you need to. Bring acouple of Deli sandwiches and something to wash it down. Sit on the bed of the pickup and see if you can’t work things out. He may be saying one thing and feeling another. All it is business, you have something he wants, and he has something you want.

[drafthorsey]

I think the bigger question is “Will there be a Facebook” in the future?

Horse, mule, ox questions, planting questions, how to, or varmint questions aren’t going away. This is one of the best Dr. offices anywhere no matter what you’re facing on the land. It seems somebody’s written something on DAP about what you’re wondering about.

Things change so fast in that computer world, maybe the question oughta be will Facebook and Google be here in 5 years?

[drafthorsey]

Nice to hear an early haying season in the northeast this year. I wondered how Oklahoma might rebound after last years smothering heat and drought. I was really concerned about weeds after last summer, and they’re here but with a little prep work in March not as bad as I feared. We’re only working 160 acres for hay and grazing. Our alfalfa field 60 acres cut two weeks ago and not the best quality or tonnage, and we started on the hay two weeks ago pausing often for a passing rain storm. We also have a lot of hay to get hauled in from the fields this week. Between work and the farm I haven’t moved any of it yet. We round bale all of our hay and use a plastic netting called “surface wrap.” It protects the hay pretty good from rain damage and this spring we need it. We used this for the last two years and it seems once the hays baled we’re pretty safe.

Some of the neighbors have been cutting wheat this month for hay after last years drought. They’ll let the wheat fields either grazed or cut for hay leaf again before spraying with a chemical “burndown” using glyphosate. I’m new to this, but the goal is also to help keep in check unwanted natural rye fescue which popped up in bunches after the wet winter. I’m guessing on fields they’ll use again as a ‘no till’ planting later this fall. This is all news to me as we run a tiny operation compared to the big boys at the local coffee shop. At least we’ve got hay, first things first …. amen.

[drafthorsey]

I have a round pen so I use it, and for many purposes. I use it because I feel comfortable in it and I hope that helps me make the horse feel the same. It’s a round pen to me and that’s about all. As an enclosure we’ll use a long lunge line or work free of a line, just depends on what stage the horse is at. We have had over the years any number of 2 and 3 year olds which basically come in from the pasture green as the grass they’re running on. What I’m looking for is an introduction, as I like to tell them, “to becoming a big horse now’. If they are going to auction that year, or someone wants to buy them I’ve got to get them on a trailer and lord willing have a safe expirience for the horse, me, new owner and such. Now we’re going to have to go elsewhere to practice with the trailer and we’ll tromp all over that thing and sniff until we’re bored with it. But we start here in the round pen.

The round pen for me is not anything more than a space where we work together. First off, mine isn’t round it’s oval. I don’t look at it like a round pen and I don’t want the horse to either. I do a lot of harnessing in there, we tie for standing practice, we’ll even do some limited hay feeding in there, and of course it can serve as a quarantine area if need be. In the pen I want them to pay attention to me. I don’t have anywhere to go and until we get a relationship neither do they. If we get jumpy while I’m throwing harness on them the first time or two they can run off and turn around and see what that thing was and I can pay attention to both the horse and harness and bring it over to start the process again. Maybe I don’t know any better but I want a young horse to be able to make a mistake (spook) and with it teach me about what he/she does when, and maybe why. Above all I want to wind up with the horse nuzzling with me in the center of whatever that place is called. I want him to know we’re working in this pen, thing, place whatever you want to call it …. and here’s the deal with our relationship, I can help get us out of about any tough spot we find ourselves in. But we’re working here and you’ve got to give me your attention.

If I’m selling you a horse the round pen gives me a place where I can watch you too. Strange as it may seem, maybe after we all get together if this isn’t the right horse, maybe I can find a horse that’s a better fit for you, or maybe I don’t want to sell you one of my horses at all. So I guess the long story short here is “WE” all feel comfortable in the round pen as a meeting place.

[drafthorsey]

When it comes to putting up a barn with the least investment …. I’m all for a metal pole barn. Mine is a 30′ x60′ on a concrete pad. Walls are expensive and so’s a roof. If you know the space you need you can at least get a basic barn up and running with a moderately low cost metal building. (You may have stockpiled other materials for construction) As far as ceiling height, I assume here the “kit” you looked at has a apartment or loft overhead. Nine foot’s not much clearance. The average ceiling in a house is 8′. If you need to back in a load of hay, for some equipment, even a big horse it can seem tight. I ran into the what goes where problem and here’s my solution. I have panels that I bolt and unbolt into postion. We do different things with barn different times of the year. I can have an area for livestock which I can either make into the shape of an “L” , “U” or simple rectangle when I want. When you build, and before you throw down a lot of money on stalling … grab a bunch of fence panels, plywood sheets or whatever and play with the formation of the floor plan so that you can see what it’s really going to look like. Movable panels give you a flexibility as your needs and seasons change.

If this takes any of the mystery out of what your finished interior of the barn looks like, think of it this way … all you’ve got after the walls and roof are up is a big cube. If you know how the future looks, storage needs etc, etc than concsider putting in non-movable stables and be done with it. If you’re just not sure, head off the local farm supply and buy a few panels that you put anywhere as the needs change.

[drafthorsey]

I zeroed in on this Toadflax post because in several areas of the country I’ve had to deal with one plant or another brought in as an ornamental to say a local nursery and folks put it in their gardens. Next thing you know everybodies got some.

We went to a friends place in Colorado a few years back and he told me the horror stories of the stuff. It was taking over some 120 acres of his and a neighbors spread in an area. I’ve had to try and deal with bamboo, vinca major a stuff that looks like english ivy but stays on the ground, and New England is overrun run with a similiar flowering plant that someone missed from the old country. Heck starlings and grackles are imported along with pythons in the everyglades, but I’m getting off message. Toadflax is such a concern in the Dakota’s if you spot it the state will help you out. I couldn’t believe the states trying to eradicate it either. Washington has a moth that’s providing some control but California, where it was introduced as low water plant or xerascape, is having an awful time of it in some parts.

What gets me is the height it grows to. 5 foot is a pretty good sized flower in my book. And the stuffs from Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Romania so you know the soil is sparse in some areas at best. And the methods they are trying really take time, here’s a clip from one site I found: Intensive clean cultivation can effectively control Dalmatian toadflax. Cultivation methods must continue for at least two years, with eight to ten cultivations in the first year and four to five in the next year.

I like your idea of canola, switch grass, or even corn if it wil shade or choke it out. Glad to hear the cows will at least munch on it, burro’s might be better suited, or goats. But if the guys in the next fields aren’t on it like you are ….. wow. I even thought of maybe really improving the soil to choke it out. Afterall weed killer is basically a super fertilizer when you get down to it. What it does is cause a plant to outgrow itsself. Post made a weed killer for bermuda grass which left even large leafed tender plants like Iris alone but I found nothing for toadflax anywhere.

I like all your ideas for animals on the patch. Hogs do a pretty good job on whatever. We had an old fellow out here who dug himself a stock pond that wouldn’t hold water. He threw 50 hogs on the acre and a half and they tromped it down pretty good and the next thing you knew he had himself a big old pond. Maybe the freeze and the plowing this winter will help, but bless you and good luck.

[drafthorsey]

Well you’re most likely going to almost fail against this little plant. Yellow toadflax is one tough hombre that can keep going either by seeds or underground rhizomes. Darn stuff grows along roadsides and even in old railroad yards. It’ll take on most other plants and win, especially with the native varieties which includes whatever your trying to grow. The rhizomatous habit makes getting rid of it almost impossible. In other words, leave even a piece of root and it all starts over again. You can spray but sprays are at best “iffy” according to what I’ve come up against. Fall spraying seems to work best up in Colorado. Picloram has been the most effective herbicide anyone I’ve talked with has used. But if you spray during rainy season, the stuff dilutes. Graze it? I’ve read dalmation toadflax is “mildly toxic” to livestock. And you’re right about quarantining the livestock, heck if you plow up the stuff, wash everything or you’ll bring it home. I don’t envy you. This stuff likes it where nothing else grows. Rent a flamethrower. It won’t help but you’ll work off some stress.

I’ve had similar battles with yellow bamboo someone thought would be good for erosion control. You know it’ll take quite a jug of vinegar but that works on bamboo and other stuff. But 20 acres …. wow! Good luck, new lease?

[drafthorsey]

Matt,

http://www.coldstreamfarm.net/p-141-osage-orange-maclura-pomifera.aspx

http://www.musserforests.com/prod.asp?p=OSO

Musser Forests out of Indiana County Pennsyvania has bare root that 6-12 inch they sell for 5 for $11.95. Coldstream Farm is up in Michigan sells sprigs that are bareroot. Here’s a sample of their pricing.

Quantity Discount
1-3 $4.28
4-24 $3.21
25-99 $1.61
100-499 $0.81
500+ $0.61

[drafthorsey]

Good going! Duke sounds like when you’re trying to get the top off a pickle jar that has a mind of its own, when all of sudden POP, it does what its supposed to. drafthorsey

[drafthorsey]

Jay …. If Financing was easy we’d all be doing it right? I agree with George, no house = no loan. Banks won’t give you a loan for land. I like the idea of owner financing if you can get it. Just make certain you don’t wind up what we call “land poor”. Your down payment sounds about right, loan term is right on for today … and if I read right they didn’t say “no”. Right?

While it’s nice the loan guy gave you a way out I’d say he doesn’t know beans about what he asked you to consider. There’s a huge housing mess going on right now. Second if you know nothing about the process of zoning, what a developer is, what a builder is, and who’s the engineer group you’re going to hire to plat the property, well that’s a steep learning curve. You’d sooner have saved the money to buy the place outright before you got a handle on all that. On top of that as the houses go up you’ve got young families with kids chasing your livestock, dogs, cars and traffic. And within a few years these same people are in front of the city council trying to zone you out. No thanks. Just the same, my land’s platted for development, doesn’t mean I’m using it that way.

I do know that there are those who have built a combination barn / house and wrapped that into a land deal. Point being, the bank see’s you’re building a house on land and the house is in a sense the collateral their after. A bank understands that approach. People buy land every day with nothing on it in a development and build. Of course you have to tell the bank you’re building a house. You might want to spend a little money on a professional lawyer or CPA (boo – hiss) and have them get your story together for you, might even have them pitch it to the bank. For a couple grand you may pull it off. And look at the bright side, you’ll lock into the lowest interest rate (4.73%) in history.

The point here is you want to know your options ….

[drafthorsey]

Chris,

Looked over the FSA site for you and the good news is you can do a joint FSA/ (your) Bank Loan which may enable you to finance somewhere in the 90 – 95% balance of the loan. Forms are straight forward but go slow and read what they want. You’ll need a form so I’ve included the link to the electronic forms. I’d do this before you talk to anyone as they can then pull it up and help with corrections or what all. Here’s the link: https://eauth.sc.egov.usda.gov/eAuth/selfRegistration/selfRegLevel2Step1.jsp

Here’s your phone number if you don’t have it for Ohio: United States Department of Agriculture
Ohio Farm Service Agency
200 North High St. Room 540
Columbus, OH 43215
(614)255-2441

Good luck.

[drafthorsey]

Chris,

Trying to get a loan in this climate is just awful. Business loans are tough to come by and FSA will give you a safe haven from all the other shananigans going on in the financial sector. I wouldn’t sleep at night if I even had to buy a house right now from a bank (see MERS nightmares and foreclosures). You know who holds the note, you know who insures your title / deed search and other such delicate issues that come with land or business. 20 years ago I’d say deal with your local bank, but now it’s hard to know who own’s the branch or who’ll own your place if something goes wacky. FSA has rules it must adhere to, and if the rules change as a member of the program they must apparise you by letter. If you fit the criteria go for it! Also find someone out there you can ask all the “stupid” questions (there are none when its your livelihood) and don’t get up from a table until you’re comfortable with what’s getting thrown at you. With Gov’t stuff, the hardest part is filling out the forms right.

Here’s a link for First Time Farmers from FSA and good luck. http://www.fsa.usda.gov/FSA/webapp?area=home&subject=fmlp&topic=bfl

[drafthorsey]

Congratulations …. and twins at that. At 17 they’ll tell you what they can do, and should be a good learning team. I like the idea of a mentor as mentioned already. Mostly have fun and they’ll have some fun too.

[drafthorsey]

Jac …… Hadn’t heard of the Swedish Draft before your post. Googled them and I can see why you’d take a look at them. They at least have the feather of the Clydes. Guess they come in several colors too. Thought of some expiramenting with an off breed but thought it might be hard to find parts. I really liked the Russian Draft for shape and style. Thought it might be good for planting and haying but stuck with Belgiums. I Googled a couple of pictures of the Swedes, and if I can figure out how to post them I will. Good luck, and maybe at worst you were ready for a new adventure. Now you get to learn all the nuances of the breed.
E. C.
🙂

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