[drafthorsey]

George you started a wonderful conversation I needed to hear …. again. Love to sit in this circle and listen to this conversation with a cup of coffee. I don’t have the luxury of working with my horses everyday or even every week. And it reminded why I don’t fly in light planes with friends anymore as they’ve thrown away the checklist because its a good old plane … had for years and never had a lick of trouble with it. Since your post had me thinking, I headed out to the barn and found a checklist that I’d thrown out too either for cost or time and began putting some equipment right. I’ve had bolters too and a couple of times there was but a second’s warning before it happened. And what if it happens and my equipment is faulty. I forget, good horsemanship starts a long way from the barn …

Thanks to all of you who contributed.

[drafthorsey]

dlskidmore …. If I’m not singing to the choir here …. and “if” I’ve read your post correctly …. you’re in the middle of the great old question, “When’s the best time to buy a washer and dryer?”

You are painting a picture of what may need to be a hobby farm until you get your feet planted. And you know your going to commute back and forth to work from the current job. You have the basic wish list, but don’t know yet where the land is or the cost, correct? And we’ve never done this before so there’s a steep learning curve? Been there …. its hard to make the balance sheet make any sense out of thin air. Maybe this is the math you cannot solve … yet .

First you need a piece of land (x) which equals price or cost (y) = amount (down payment / monthly payments). I am assuming the land will come with house on it, as it’s my experience banks will not lend money for only land. Figure for the next 5 years all of your current salary will be needed just to keep the bank happy. Assume you can’t afford the farm in your mind (none of us can), and assume your going to buy absolutely the worst farm for what you had in mind (all of us have). Assume it’s going to work out in the end, but it’s gonna be a real tight fit …. you might also figure the absolute worst people to know concerning your bottom line are going to show up first. (i.e.. maybe a farm manager?)

When I was younger I was the smartest idiot you ever met, cost me a lot of money to be that smart …. now I”m about as stupid and pityful as it gets when it comes to business meetings. That said, do we know a solid attorney, banker, and CPA who knows farming? The hardest lesson to learn is the need to turn key areas over to a professional right out of the chute. And the first ‘professional’ I’d forget recruiting is the real estate person, no offense to the realtors out there, its just that where the farm is … is where the realtor is.

I’d want to set up a solid financial / legal understanding of what my options could be before I buy any land. May i ask if New York state tax law penalizes farms under a certain amount of acres for example? While your in the office asking all kinds of “dumb” questions with some professional, you might want to write another check to draw up that contract for a future ‘farm manager’.

I’ll most likely have to dodge a few bullets for what I’ve written. But let’s say I didn’t follow some of my advice here. Let’s say that maybe at the worst possible time the dang’ washer broke on me …. and a bunch of really ‘dumb’ people smartened me up. A dream’s a lot of hard work.

You’ll be just fine that first mornin’, sipping a cup of coffee on the porch lookin’ over the sunrise and the back 40.

[drafthorsey]

Donn,

A friend came home with a ‘reel’ gang mower he bought from a golf course auction. I want one! 5 reel mowers built in a 3 forward 2 rear fashion. He mows his lawn with it hooked to a forecart. First problem he encountered is maintenance. It takes a lot time to keep it sharpened as it seems to want attention after 5 or 6 uses. But best mower I’ve ever seen for lawns that can be horse drawn.

Second, is there a ‘brush hog’ mower that can be horse drawn to use for field edges? Or am I going to have to keep paying the guy to come out with his tractor? Johnson grass really gets a hold on the edges along with other unpalitable stuff. Thought of goats, but I haven’t got the money to re-fence. Thanks Chad.

[drafthorsey]

LStone what a great question. I played around with log crane on runners I built to give it a try. Picking UP a rock, and swinging it into place is pretty tough work (almost impossible to set with only one guy working the lift). Looks like unless you use really long poles for lifting where you can get a lot of leverage a couple of men might have trouble getting a 300 pound rock into the air. I favor the theory of a ramp, especially for big stuff. and skid it off the stone boat up a ramp and into place.

As for the old timers …. First you’ve got to understand the rock you’re about to move. A big rock moves side to side to go forward. It takes a lot less time haulng a boulder up to a site with a team of horses or oxen near or onto a ramp, unhooking and bringing them around to other side of the wall and have them pull the stone up a ramp…. rather then lifting it in the air and swinging it into position. Sicklehocks is right on this in his post. A lot of those heavy pry bars found in grand parents sheds, barns or garages were used to help position a big stone. Or dig one out of the ground.

Lifting stone might be a little to modern of a thought. I still use a ramp and crow bar on wall construction even with a crew. For the really big stuff (big boulder construction) cut stone commercial projects I’ll call for a crane. Not horsey but we do have deadlines or fines. Great post!

[drafthorsey]

Thank you Near Horse for the news of Maurice Telleen of the DHJ. He must have passed on with clean harness in the barn. I loved his articles of 25, 50, and 75 years ago. A pretty consolidated and well written history of the past …. horses and other news. So thanks, it is a magazine you just can’t throw out.

[drafthorsey]

Maybe your only problem is you can’t fix a tractor.

Work is like love a friend once told me … ‘No one really wants you to be happy in it, they want you to be as miserable as they think they are’. For me I’ve had a lot of family tell me all the mistakes in life I’ve made while they wave their forks and knives eating the beef and vegtables I raised. I have a place in the city, but I live here on the farm. Sure its costly to have these big horses around, and sure I’ve gotta put in work elsewhere to make sure they get fed. From the folks with a bigger house, fancier car, and that all important ‘community status’ I get all kinds of free advice. I’d love to just once tell some of them, “Hey after the financial sector collapsed there’s no retirement anymore, so what do you want to be doing in your ’70’s?”

I’ve fallen down a lot too. But I’ve sought out what I needed out of life and frankly they didn’t show up until I had it. Had the same folks call and remind me how I could be doin’ it different. Different being their way. My kids are grown and they still call on the weekend. They can tell on the phone when I’m working in the city or back at the farm. Seems to me everything takes a lot of practice in life. Even liking that face your shaving.

Dust off that old children’s book about the Red Hen and give it another read.

[drafthorsey]

what a great idea. never thought of barrels . I had a guy sell me a gravity feed bin on legs and the sun just cooks what’s in it over time. I ‘ve got a guy who has those blue plastic barrels I’ll bet he’ll sell me. Would that work or do you think there has to be some air? afterall, even the Quaker Oat meal container is made of cardboard and that breathes. Surely lack of air wouldn’t hurt stored feed … would it?

[drafthorsey]

Well I’ve never seen anything like this, even the doggone Farmer’s Almanac was off …. moved to Oklahoma in 1980 and suffered the longest heat wave they’d had and we’re breaking those records in 2011. Even putting some distance on the bad drought of ’97 and ’98 which hit my place really hard. I cut my hay the last week of May and got a paltry return for my efforts. Not even half the tonnage of the year before. It’s late August and the hay hasn’t come up that cutting more than boot high. It’s brown and wirey as can be. Crunches under your boot.

Trailer trucks are racing up and down I-35 with hay. Wonder what the cost of fuel is doing to the cost of hay. First folks were selling off their livestock as they had no hay. Now they’re selling as there’s no water, farm ponds are drying up. Actually went to a cattle auction where the auctioneer held things up and asked if any of us would put a bid in on this pen of cattle? Rancher stepped up to the mic and said he couldn’t take ’em back home as he’d run out of water. These are good herds of cattle and it hurts to see these men sell, or need to sell off what they put their pride into. To these farmers and ranchers credit, they’re still putting some good lookin’ beef through the chutes…. water, hay …. or not.

Talkin’ with my neighbor over the fence this past Thursday. He tells me its’ much much worse south and west of Houston, Texas where I’d imagine they deal with a lot less rain in a good year than most of us do. Georgia and Alabama have been in a long drought they’re finally pulling out of we guess. Kansas is hit hard too. The corn looks like it’s mid – December and somebody was to lazy to cut it. Dry, brown, withered stalks just standing there in rows.

Hope the rest of you might be wondering if you ought to hook up the team and try for a third cutting. Hope the rest of you are wondering if you did, where you’d put the extra hay. Wouldn’t wish this on anybody. So kiss a few of the first bales you put up for us down here this August if the harvest is good. Ain’t complaining. We’ll get through this, nothing a little rain won’t cure…

[drafthorsey]

I’m new to the site. And in catching up on what you folks have been discussing I came across your great question about 4 or 6 up hitches. Dick Sparrow is out of Iowa, never met the man, and believe his family carries on the driving tradition. You might check Draft Horse Journal for all kinds of stuff on this article (in fact just about anything horse you can think of). I’ve included a the web address for the story and a sample of the copy.

Forty horses – 10 rows of four large Belgians – were quite a sight at the end of Milwaukee’s circus parades, and the person controlling all those animals was Elmer R. “Dick” Sparrow.[/I]Sparrow was a big bear of a man and he needed every last ounce of strength to handle the reins when the 40-horse hitch first appeared at the Fourth of July Schlitz Circus Parade in 1972http://www.jsonline.com/news/obituaries/112641449.html

[drafthorsey]

You’re right, there’s nothing like thumbing through any of Lynn Miller’s books for a thought on this or that. What a round pen does for me is let the horse run as far as he needs to before we are going to reconsider the deal we have together. New horse, old horse …. nothing like a little morning trot to get us back to working together. Sometimes I’m away for a few weeks and if want to go for a wagon ride on a nice afternoon a few lessons in the round pen re-aquaints us nicely. With a new horse I can rattle cans, flash tin at them or whatever and see how they react. Lot’s of folks will sell you horses that are ‘broke’ right up to where you get them home. Can’t blame ’em, you aren’t their friend yet … that’s the job of a round pen. To make friends, see how you’ve harnessed today, see how they’re moving today or just work on the word ‘whooaa’.

I started with the pipe round pen already on the property. Moved to a railroad tie installation which is much tougher against anyone who might crash into it. A fellow told me that it might be a good idea to plant some shrubs or bushes around the outside as it blocks the vision of the horse and keeps his attention where it ought to be … I’m guessin’ they work, but be careful to pick something they won’t eat or are poisonous to the horse.

[drafthorsey]

Oklahoma (August 9, 2011)
Don’t know how far down the road you are with your Stallion question but here’s my take. Before the drought of ’97 – 98 we ran 19 brood mares and a stallion on pasture. Every so often they all get sick of each other and you need a setup where you can get him away from the ladies. Well that’s money, and if you have a small operation you may or may not have the room. With all the stallions out there maybe a search for the confirmation you like will get you farther down the road than buying one of your own (uinless you’ve just got to have a stallion).

I like your thoughts on pasture breeding (if your new to it). People will write you about hand breeding at the chute and all that can go on with your first time. Then there’s the problem of venereal disease with a strange stallion and the whole mess just on from there. Before you know it you’re a few thousand dollars down the road and still a couple thousand short to finish what you started. Might want to buy a test tube and rent a Vet and be done with it.

I had top notch expert help from a neighbor who shares a fence with me and who went in with me on this expirament. These days there’s no stallion on the place and just 4 mares and I don’t think I’ll ever be young enough again to start up again.

[drafthorsey]

Oklahoma (August 9, 2011)
Don’t know how far down the road you are with your Stallion question but here’s my take. Before the drought of ’97 – 98 we ran 19 brood mares and a stallion on pasture. Every so often they all get sick of each other and you need a setup where you can get him away from the ladies. Well that’s money, and if you have a small operation you may or may not have the room. With all the stallions out there maybe a search for the confirmation you like will get you farther down the road than buying one of your own (uinless you’ve just got to have a stallion).

I like your thoughts on pasture breeding (if your new to it). People will write you about hand breeding at the chute and all that can go on with your first time. Then there’s the problem of venereal disease with a strange stallion and the whole mess just on from there. Before you know it you’re a few thousand dollars down the road and still a couple thousand short to finish what you started. Might want to buy a test tube and rent a Vet and be done with it.

I had top notch expert help from a neighbor who shares a fence with me and who went in with me on this expirament. These days there’s no stallion on the place and just 4 mares and I don’t think I’ll ever be young enough again to start up again.

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