[jen judkins]

If no one is interested in this topic…..please delete it Carl. I, for one, would like to get some feedback about this. But maybe I am alone in this….which is OK.

[jen judkins]

@gunslinger598 8479 wrote:

We both agreed with the horses.
We don’t like to drink with pigs either.

Agreed! :D:D:D

[jen judkins]

I think this is a fascinating discussion, but I’m such a visual learner, I can’t follow well. The diagrams were helpful, though.

It would be great to have a ‘multiple hitch’ course/demo at NEAPFDs this year…how to rig the lines, set the eveners, different ways of hitching and the pros and cons. Any takers? Dennis? Andre? Anyone?

[jen judkins]

Handsome youngsters, Dennis!

[jen judkins]

Ed, I’ll bet he did some pulling competitions. What you describe is typical for marginally trained horses used for pulling. He is anticipating the load and the clink of the hitch. When he realizes its not there, he comes back to you. Like any pattern, I suspect with repetition, he’ll get the idea that he isn’t being hitched to something too heavy for him to handle and he will settle.

OldKat…what were you thinking? I’m curious…

[jen judkins]

Robert, go to the library and watch this video. I have watched it over and over and marveled at the relationship possible between man and beast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVfo3X4gTuQ&feature=related

[jen judkins]

I admire you for weighing back in….

The way I see it…and I am one who values the relationship I have with my horses…the tractor would be something I reserve for an animal that was intractable for my purposes. Likely, I would sell an animal before it got to that point OR I would have made my point some other way and developed a working relationship with it. I prefer the later, for all the reasons you describe.

But I fully appreciate the full time farmer (which I am not) and their need to accomplish what needs to be accomplished in order to make a living. I believe horses and mules and donkeys can definately buy into this program, and actually thrive by being useful. I wish you could watch Bivols video of the loggers (I forget where they are)…..just a perfect example of relationship and work ethic.

[jen judkins]

@john plowden 8241 wrote:

Black flies are gonna be here soon!

Buzz killer :p

[jen judkins]

@whoamule 8156 wrote:

Jennifer, Your trip to Quebec City sounds awesome! In skijoring, you tow from the saddle horn, right?

From the cantle, actually…though there are some leagues that use the horn. Its alittle less stable with the horn, as the saddle can easily get pulled over.

@whoamule 8156 wrote:

In response to your question of ‘happy horse vs. agenda” I say AGENDA trumps. Sometimes my livestock and I come up agaisnt some rough jobs. In my working life I’ve always had to buckle down and get the job done. One of my first jobs as a teenager involved scraping chicken manure out from under laying hen cages. Am I going to wimp out and mollycoddle my livestock? I think not.

I appreciate your feedback. I agree that sometimes a job needs to be done….but not all serve a sufficient purpose to make it mandatory. Skijoring is my agenda and although we won alittle money in Quebec, it wouldn’t hurt for me to go without my horse, help with the event and enjoy Quebec. For me that is the new agenda:rolleyes:

[jen judkins]

In the way of an update….apparently while I was out at the GMDHA meeting yesterday, my mom discovered the piglets loose from their pen.

Bless her stout heart, she chased them down (over 10 acres) and tackled them like a linebacker, dragging them back to the pen. But not before the piglets had a run through the horse paddock. I guess the horses were not amused and tried to stomp them…to her horror.

[jen judkins]

It occurs to me….reading this thread…that there are as many ways to work with an animal as there are personalities or purposes in which an idea becomes reality.

I definately value the connection I have with my animals…the way they try to please me and sometimes ‘mess’ with me. I dig their individuality. I like triing to figure out where their heads are at, whether they enjoy what they are doing or whether they are scared or bored. It IS what fascinates me about horses and being able to do things with them. So I could no sooner take Ronnie’s approach as I could fix an engine….just no aptitude for it, I guess.

I can see the point though. If you are making a living with your ‘beast of burden’ …and btw, I am not…there isn’t alot of room for ‘paralysis of analysis’. You just have to get things done. And I’m not convinced that horses don’t prefer that approach in many cases….they are afterall born followers.

Interesting discussion.

[jen judkins]

One of my best mentors once impressed upon me a very simple principle and that is, when training a horse (or a mule), set the horse up to do it the way you want them to, from the start, so they never learn to do something else accidentally (that you have to train them not to do).

So while there are a few things about this guys training that aren’t my personal style, the tractor certainly sets the mules up to do it right and that will certainly stay in my ‘bag of tricks’ going forward. As Dennis, rightly points out, every horse is different and you might need something alittle different than your normal approach for a difficult or challenging animal.

Personally, I enjoy seeing how others train, whether I’m learning a new trick or a technique I’d like to avoid…its all good.

[jen judkins]

@goodcompanion 8048 wrote:

I prefer to think of it as “facilitating” rather than “control.” Natural law still applies, but I still believe a farmer can work within these laws to make a particular spot on earth bloom, just because I have seen careful individuals do so over decades of work (and starting with extremely average pieces of land, too)

Of course being absolute in this or any other matter is silly, and we can pick away at the extremes of any argument if we want, but I still feel there is perfectly good reason to strive one’s farm to close loops, if you will, wherever it is feasible in order to maximize soil biology and long-term fertility.

Of course the community scale matters too, and I for one care about mine, but not in the same way as I care about land and animals directly under my care.

You could think of the human in this equation as a conductor in an orchestra if you wanted to, trying to shape independent sounds and sections of instruments into something of beauty that sustains human life and spirit. And you know, that does sound egotistical in a way, doesn’t it? But there is also a semantic difference between saying, “I am trying learn and listen in order to be a good conductor someday” and saying “I am a great conductor.”

Well said, Erik.

[jen judkins]

@Rod 8047 wrote:

Jen
Where is the risk? The market will take care of the balancing (unless of course we try and let the government do the balancing). I doubt any livestock manure producer or lime quarry would benefit by hording their resource.

Hah! As an farmer with a ‘surplus’ of the former, I agree wholeheartedly:D. If I could trade some manure for lime, I’d be in pretty sweet shape! I don’t think it was me who brought up the risks though…personally I don’t see any as long as my needs stay basic and my network as local as possible.

[jen judkins]

@Hal 8023 wrote:

In all seriousness, I have actually wondered about the potential of “humanure” to be a useful source of fertility. I guess that there are many obstacles and considerations (not the least of which is public perception) to using composted human wastes to fertilize farm fields, but I have read that the Chinese did this for years, which contributed to their ability to feed a large population in a small area. Just an interesting thought.

Hal, there was a local guy using humanure up the road from me a few years ago. The neighbors put up such a ‘stink’ about it (no pun intended) that he was forced to stop.

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