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jen judkins
Participant@Crabapple Farm 8034 wrote:
The only true “closed loop” fertility-wise is the entire earth. And the earth imports energy from the sun. Carbon and Nitrogen are readily imported onto the farm from the air. The vast bulk of biomass is from air and water, not the soil. The amount of matter actually extracted from soil in an animal or vegetable is pretty small. It adds up, certainly. But erosion accounts for a heck of a lot more nutrient exportation from the average farm than the product sold.
OK, see that is exactly what I mean. There is NO way to isolate one’s farm, closing it, to exchange of nutrients one way or the other. Influx and eflux are happening, whether we want it to or not. Sure you can enhance one process or the other, but it seems (to me) egotistical to believe you can control natural law to any great extent.
Participant@Robert MoonShadow 8007 wrote:
I agree with Carl’s point on defining what a farmer is; my experience in this regards: last summer, while selling at the new farmers’ market in the next town over (the county seat), I was asked by an aspiring market-gardener, what was it that made someone a “real” :confused: farmer & not “just” a gardener. My reply: the intent. I grow & sell my products – produce, herbs, goats, & rabbits – intending to make a profit. The two ladies who shared my booth, on the other hand, were there only to sell off their surplus (perhaps at a great enough price to pay for their overall seeds used) while socializing with friends & neighbors. They saw it as a social event – which is great.
I don’t know, Robert. I suspect your friends could be considered farmers as well. The word ‘profit’ as you use it, implies that one has to make a living growing and producing to be considered a farmer. I don’t think that is true. Even if one grows only enough food for their family, there is profit…though it is less obvious.
I think there is a whole lot of room for the small scale farmer with a surplus of whatever. Just think of the community of food you could develope if everyone purposefully grew a surplus of just one type of produce or protein. Could create a very sweet and diverse exchange of product without much money changing hands.
ParticipantThis has been a fascinating thread, one that has really gotten me thinking about new ways to become less dependant on external imports in regard to my own small farm. But I am still stuck…on the ‘closed loop’ farm concept.
I’m no soil biologist and you could make the argument that I’m not even a real farmer, but I am a scientist and by definition, any ‘closed loop’ environment is just that.. a ‘closed’ system….nothing in AND nothing out! So if you are exporting produce or hay or manure or whatever, your farm is, by definition an ‘open loop’…or at the very best, a ‘closed loop’ with a leak:eek:. How long that leak can be ignored will vary from farm to farm and perhaps depend abit on the creativity of its master.
I applaud the use of innovative farming techniques to make use of the hidden potential in the soil or in ways of reusing by-products of farming, but where is the balance point between unnecessary or risky reliance on outside materials and the developement of important and reliable community networks? I’m hearing from people here, that that balance is important and that the closed system is just an ideal to get close to, but not realistic in most situations…and I wholeheartedly agree. Why fight so hard to force an equation that, taken as a more complex entity implies some reliance on whatever resources we trust and can nurture. The exchange is some risk for more stability and ease of execution.
I have a hard time envisioning a way that someone like Erik with a good size CSA, will be able to develope a truly ‘closed system’ without collecting some humanure from his clients. Maybe build a ‘potty wagon’ to bring some of that bread back to your land:p.
Participant@Robert MoonShadow 7920 wrote:
Jen ~ I’m back out of the mountains for the weekend… and need my “Reno fix”! How is he doing?
Drauma junky, eh?:p
He is doing just fine…in fact, better than expected.
Participant@Hal 7868 wrote:
Jen, I was talking specifically about farms that aspire to not import nutrients from outside, even though they sell products to consumers. I have heard of farms that proudly state that they do not import compost of any sort from outside of the farm. I am not trying to criticize these farms, but I am questioning whether that can be sustainable in the end. OldKat, I tend to agree with your reasoning; I would think that any crop exported would ultimately take nutrients away from the farm, but I guess that that can be offset.
Well, I’m not sure those ‘farms’ are being totally up front about how they function. If you buy feed for your animals from off the farm, whether it be hay of grain or supplements and use their manure for compost, you are adding nutrients.
ParticipantNice photos…Ozzie looks like he is working out well.
It was nice to meet you today…always good to have a face to connect with online. Thanks for the video. After you left it occured to me that you might like to borrow my Steve Bower video series. I can bring them along when I return yours. Looking forward to meeting your big guy!
ParticipantThanks for posting that link, Erik. I caught the second half of the program today, but missed Carl’s piece.
ParticipantMy understanding, Hal, is that the revenue created by the sale of farm goods can be used to replace lost nutrients, in the form of feed, seed, minerals, etc. Maybe I misunderstood your question…
ParticipantWell, I can see HOW they get fit….that sure is quite a load, amazing.
ParticipantWelcome, Rod. Nice pair of halflingers. I rarely see them so fit;)
Cute mower…how does it work?
ParticipantOK, Carl…..that post seriously should come with a warning attached! Maybe I’m alittle fragile this week, but the screaming legless bambi image has put me off mowing forever!
ParticipantThanks everyone…I’ve got my Mo-Jo back, so to speak and I’m being more optimistic.
The truth is, when I agreed to take Reno on, I made it clear it would be a short term situation. If it didn’t work, I would send him on his way…without any long term commitment. Andre and I even planned Reno’s passing if necessary. The trouble is….Reno has completely stolen my heart. He is a wonderful partner and a beautiful creature, full of life and optimism. Even when he has doubts, he rises to the occasion. Andre warned me that he was special, I just didn’t believe him at first. I do now.
It seems a cruel joke to subject him and me to more ‘rehab’, but I cannot refuse him at this point, though some of you will think me ‘soft’ or worse…’unsustainable’! All I can say is that there is a role for people like me in a communtity like this…we all have our gifts. The world would be a sadder place without love and compassion and the expectation of miracles.
ParticipantThat IS a nice story! Its a good feeling when you know your animals prefer to stick around and not leave.
ParticipantWell, unfortunately we’ve had a set back today. Reno had a fight with my fence and lost. Severed the extensor tendon on…get this…the injured leg. We are now back to stall rest, IM antibiotics and wound care.
I’m fairly despondant at this point…don’t even try to cheer me up:(
Participant@Plowboy 7784 wrote:
Jen, Be carefull driving Reno too much. If you keep driving a good Percheron you’ll be converted and forget about Peanut. He really needs you to help him with his education before you turn him out and forget about him.:)
No chance of forgetting about Peanut;), but I do think I might look for a second harness…I think Reno could be of some help in Peanut’s education!
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