[Jim Ostergard]

I used to wear mostly chaps, the pants are too hot in summer and at least the ones I have are drafty as a bugger in the winter. I found a pair of what is labelled skidder pants which are a bib and have zippers rather than the snaps on the chaps. Back in the 70’s the first pair of chaps I had were full lower leg with stout, large zippers rather than the snaps. Don’t know why they are not made as they never snagged the way chaps do. I have tripped so many times on a snag behind the horse and on a skidder they are looking for something to hook on when you climb out. Must cost more to make with a good zippers so some bean counter said get rid of them.
Jim

[Jim Ostergard]

Mitch,
Probably wise is neither of us went into the, “rig” thing around girlfriends! And if you had just left the store after taking the last Moxie I might comment to one of our friends, “Now he’s a rig, ain’t he?”
Jim

[Jim Ostergard]

I also deduct all the expenses for the horses against my logging income. I was told by a tax preparer that I had to depreciate the horses. I did that with Rusty but claimed Zeb ($500) as a one time purchase like a chain saw in the year I bought him.
Jim

[Jim Ostergard]

Simon,
Thanks for the pictures. What with having the walking beams and front axle it should not be too hard for me to build the rest of the wagon. I think the wire crane makes the most sense from my economical stand point.
Haven’t had any work for the new horse except my own wood and have had to hire out to a skidder crew this winter. Been cutting wind thrown spruce in 3 feet of snow and wicked mish mash of stems. Sold my heavy Stihl 441 and went to a smaller Jonesered 2252. Figure it was a gift to myself as I get a bit too close to 70. Again thanks for the photos and I will post a picture on the wagon when I get it built. Hope all is well over there.
Jim

[Jim Ostergard]

Simon,
Thanks for posting all the pictures. I had found some of them but have now copied them to a folder on my computer. I am going to take the walking beam wheels off my arch and have a rear bunk built for them. Thus, I can use the wheels on either. I have a front axle which I will build the front bunk on. My question is, if I wanted to put a wire crane on it would I set it up so that the crane weight was directly on the front axle? I can see if I just set it up for pole wood no loader then the logs could load over the front. A second question; from all the photos I have I am not sure where the boom articulates on the wire crane. Is it just at the heel of the boom or does the whole upper part of the crane rotate? Thanks for posting all the pictures.
Jim

[Jim Ostergard]

I cut a piece of plywood to fit over both bunks and it goes out over the stake pockets. I cut out for the stakes and made some sideboards that fit into the pockets. Thus the whole box will move as the scoot moves. In the picture gallery there is at least one shot of me throwing wood into it. Look under J. It sure works good for getting fitted wood right from the stump to the wood shed and I have used it to haul gear way back into the woods then take it off and use the scoot.
Jim

[Jim Ostergard]

Good discussion on hung trees. Learned a few things that I will try. I like Mitch have done a lot with the skidder and have to really think differently with the horse. I wear a vest on which I sewed a couple of nylon wedge pouches. It allows me to carry as many as six wedges although I usually have four with me in a range of sizes. It has a hook for my tape and pockets for the first aid stuff, cell phone and my pipe.
With all this rain and 40-60 mph gusts will no doubt mean lots more spruce blowdowns on the shore. Mostly skidder work for now but a lot of it is hourly. Dangerous work for sure and a lot of thinking is required for each tree removal.

[Jim Ostergard]

I am just hooking up a small solar system in my new barn. Panel and controller is from Northern Hydraulics think it was around $200. A bit pricey but we then went for off the shelf LED’s with three over the two tie stalls, one over each work bench, one in the loft and a flood for the times one needs to find the hidden tool in the upper part of the barn. Starting out with an old skidder battery to see how much battery I will need for 3-4 days of no sun. So far I’ve been using the LED in the stalls using the 110 but will take up the 100′ extension tonight to see how it works. Will post charge amount and draw next.

[Jim Ostergard]

Nice looking rig Rod. The Swedes have a rig they put in one of the post holes which has a shallow u shape on top of the pipe. If you can get one end of a log up on this device the other end when lifted can easily be swung over the stern of the forwarder, sled or whatever. I have yet to build one but might give it a try this winter.

[Jim Ostergard]

Thanks Rick,
Lots of wind here today also. Some gusts around 40 or so. Too wet to get into my woods, really looking forward to some cold weather. Thanks on your ideas on the price list. I am hoping folks will look it over and over time contribute to what might be useful and what is not. You too, have a restful Thanksgiving.
Jim

[Jim Ostergard]

I agree with you about that stump at the end of the bridge! Jason lost most of a scoot load there a couple of winters ago. Amazing how with a change in conditions the production would improve. With that stump gone, frozen ground/snow and being able to get that little bit further to good landing suddenly the job prospects really change. Again wondering if using a checklist like the Swedes would help when talking to a landowner or not. Most of us do this in our heads I suspect and for me that is getting less and less reliable. a restful and peaceful Thanksgiving to all.
jim

[Jim Ostergard]

Carl,
I wasn’t assuming that you were moving saw logs only knowing the kind of wood in that stand. Just wondering how the Swedish list might have been applied to that particular part of the job. Or whether it was applicable at all. I agree that given a commercial harvest on that spot one might have made another twitch trail. Thanks for the comments.
Jim

[Jim Ostergard]

I’ve copied the price list below from the 1991 publication, “The Horse in the Forest.” Great little book which cannot be found in English except from Doug Joiner of the British Horse Logging group. Now costs about $70 USD to get it here in N. America. Maybe we should see about getting a grant to get it reprinted.
Carl in the thread of yesterday with the great photos of him on the bobsled said he got about 1,000-1,200bf in 3-4 hours. Wonder how the economics of that would work using this list. Maybe Carl would go over it remembering the trail, length of skid and whether it was pine pulp or saw logs he was getting out.
I translated the actual rates based on the Swedish Krona in 1991. Interesting hourly rate. Not sure what is included in the hourly rate for start up but it would not be too hard to quantify that. I did leave out a few things from the original document.
If one was using the hourly rate I was wondering if you still could use the percentage increments as a way of explaining to the landowner why the job might take a bit longer, thus cost more when the hours are tallied. This list could easily be put into an excel format to figure the time or price.
Would like to hear what folks think of this. Maybe some of our Swedish friends would join in and update it for us.

Price List for Horse Logging

Basic Rate – Mbf
Per Cord …………..

Hot yard to trail (no piling of wood)
75 ft. $ 1.96
150 ft. $ 2.24

Forward to Landing, Stacking of wood:
Grapple Loader Wirecrane Manual
300 ft. $ 2.50 $ 2.80 $ 3.08
450 ft. $ 2.80 $ 3.08 $ 3.36
600 ft. $ 3.08 $ 3.36 $ 3.92
1,000 ft $ 3.36 $ 3.92 $ 4.20

Basic Rate Adjustments

Terrain: Adjustment
Flat or slightly downhill – 0%
Undulating – 5%
Steep downhill, uphill or heavy
undulating – 10%
Solid ground – 0%
Soft ground – 10%
Very soft ground – 10-50%
Rocks, boulders:
Not obstructive – 0%
Obstructive – 5%
Very obstructive – 10%
Volume extracted:
Normal (1,000bf/hr) – 0%
Less than normal (500bf/hr) 5%
Wood size:
Normal sized – 0%
Oversized – 5%
Undersized – 5%
Assortments separated by forest worker:
1-4 0%
5 5%
6 7%
7 10%
Landing area:
Normal – 0%
Poor – 5%
Very poor – 10%
Snow depth:
Not obstructive – 0%
Obstructive – 5%
Very obstructive – 10%
Travel distance (home-work site):
10 miles – 0%
15 miles – 7%
25 miles – 10%

Total (Basic rate plus adjustments):

Hourly rates

Single horse, conventional equipment $32/hr
Two horses, wirecrane $37.50/hr
Start up fee $45/hr
Travel expense $62
or $ 4.50/6 miles

[Jim Ostergard]

I second that Tim. I too have noodled over how to write some of my ideas about my approach to horse logging. I think it is needed Carl. The Swedish book, “The Horse in the Forest” is superb but it would be a great addition to have something more home grown. I have heard how great the workshop was and sorry I couldn’t be there for more of it. I think we really moved into a good grove this time around and the feedback we get from you all will be put to good use. Thanks so much to all and especially to those who travelled so far to help out.
Jimbojim

[Jim Ostergard]

Karl,
Grand idea about the wood chips. I hadn’t come up with that and we are always getting the tree guys to drop off chips. My paddock with today’s gale and rain is a wicked mess and I was going to scrape it when it was dry enough. Four months of the horses using it has almost 6 inches of muck. I would use the chips around the round bale feeder and back enough so they would be dryer. Would be nice when it freezes. Thanks for sharing

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