[Lanny Collins]

@jac 26711 wrote:

I have a really nice pair of wooden hames and was wondering if they would be strong enough for the 3rd horse in my plow or would i be better with steel ones.. thanks in advance people…
John

John, if the wood is in good condition and they fit your collar well there is no reason why they would not be as good as steel. Just make sure the straps at the top and bottom are in good condition as well and go for it.:)

[Lanny Collins]

@FELLMAN 26681 wrote:

In tyhe end i went for biothaine from pionner and im very pleased with it, another question though , how do you guys store your harness when not in use ?? im thinking of makeing something but a pic would be good for me to copy 😀 anyone help ??

I have biothane harness for my QH team as well. I have never attached a picture but will try. First I will just describe it and if you need a pic I will try to send one.

Basically, I have a piece of PVC plastic pipe about 2.5 meters long and around 75mm in diameter.

I feed small square bales of hay and the bales of hay are tied with string we call binder twine. I take some of this twine and tie it to the rafter in my shop building (one twine on either end of the pipe). At the bottom of the twine is just a loop that the pipe runs through. The loops of twine are about 300mm from the very end of the pipe.
One harness is put on each end of the pipe. From the center of the pipe going toward the ends will be breeching, saddle, hames/collar, and the bridel and lines will be at the very ends.
When I’m ready to harness I usually pull the line, bridle, and collar for one horse. After putting on the collar I go back and run my arm inside the remaining harness with one arm and pull the pipe out of the twine loop with the other arm.
I usually put the pipe through the crupper which helps hold it on the pipe. Sometimes the saddle wants to rotate on this small diameter pipe but usually I try to equalize the straps to balance the weight either side. I could use a larger diameter pipe but then it probably would not go through the center of my crupper.
I like this rack as I can slide the harness parts so that they are not stacked on top of each other so they dry quickly and I can easily clean and repair the harness from either side as well as both ends.
Let me know if I described it well enough or if you need a pic. It is not too pretty but it works good for me and it didn’t cost too much, and I can relocate it easy if I want to.:)

PS: forgot to mention. With this system you can customize the height of the pipe depending on your height. If you want to free up floor space all you need to do is put pulley’s at the top of the twine (tied to rafter) and after loading the harness you can hoist it up to the top part of your ceiling and be able to walk under it, provide you have high enough walls. I used to hang riding saddles like that. With a biothane harness the higher temperatures (close to the ceiling) will not harm it.

[Lanny Collins]

Ok guy’s. Don’t start laughing but I did a little brainstorming and tried to think out of the box. Come up with this idea but it would be best if the rows are not too long and you have some help it would make it faster. Here goes;

You have all seen those volley ball goal post made with car wheels filled with concrete. What if you have 2ea of these at the ends of your plowed area. Set them up and stretch string between them to make a “lane” for the single horse to walk between. This may only be needed to make the first row. If you start off straight there is a better chance of keeping it that way. If you had someone at the opposite end both of you could easily roll the goal posts a few feet to make the next lane, if needed.

Ok, remember you’re not supposed to be laughing.:D

[Lanny Collins]

@Matthew 25676 wrote:

Thank you for all the help. I will defanitly use these sugestions. My plan for hitching on friday is to have my friend (who knows horses better than me) drive the horse while I have a hold of a lead rope if he does run I can get his head yanked around and hopefully keep control. I will also go back to the liverpool bit and hook it low hopefully over time I can come up and go to a snaffel but time will tell. I also loaded my four foot wood sled with six six foot logs I figure it weighs about 1200 lbs. I have them chain binded down and the steel single tree is atached with a clevis so even if he upsets it some how he cant dump it and run off with a light load. If it is too heavy I can roll a few logs off to find what is going to work. Thanks again and I would love to hear more ideas or experences.

Matthew, how did it go today? Hope you and friend had good luck and worked a sweat on that young horse.:)

[Lanny Collins]

@TaylorJohnson 25738 wrote:

LOL Tim he had a lot of names for me that we will not talk about … when he was mad that is. He is almost 6’4” tall and my arm span is as long as his and I am 5’9” .. he always thinks that is funny. Taylor Johnson

Taylor, your comment brings back memories. I had an uncle (who is deceased now) that was I believe the tallest man in the world (sitting down). It was amazing how short his legs were but from his waist to the top of his head was extra long. I don’t remember exactly how tall he was (6’1″ or 6’2″) somewhere in that range and when standing up talking to him it was not too bad but when sitting down around the card table we was alway’s kinda looking up to him.:)

[Lanny Collins]

@Tim Harrigan 25733 wrote:

I think it is not uncommon to splinter the outer 20% or so of the deep bend of the bow. After I have shaved it down and feathered it back into the outer parts of the bow I have not seen much additional splintering over time. It would not hurt to use some oil on it once in a while, but I don’t put anything on my bows. Usually there is enough oil from the hide of the cattle that I just don’t see a need for it. But linseed oil certainly will not hurt anything and is worth a try. What kind of wood are you using, you might be seeing problems that just don’t occur with other woods.

Tim, I am not an oxer, just with all the wood I use on the farm which is usually in fences, trailers, etc..; I was not thinking but yes the oils in the animals hair is probably adequate but even with that didn’t know how well it would work itself around to the outside where the most bend stress was occurring. Just a horse / mule person being nosy and throwing out ideas.:D

[Lanny Collins]

Tim, does it make sense that you would maybe once a year or so take the bows and soak or wipe them down with a good wood preservative? It seems like since these are exposed to the elements that keeping them treated something like boiled linseed oil or some other type oil would prevent the splintering effect or at minimum slow it down.:)

[Lanny Collins]

blue80, I thought the mountain pony pics were kinda neat as well. Also wondering if the wagon had a stiff or drop tongue. I would think a stiff tongue would be a little easier on their neck but it is amazing when you think you have seen about everything, something new/different shows up.:)

[Lanny Collins]

@goodcompanion 25686 wrote:

Take your sled and chain it to a big heavy truck.

Then drive your horse, standing on the sled, down a nice straight road. Have someone in the truck drive behind so there is slack on the chain.

When your horse bolts, have the truck driver slam on the brakes. Your horse will not be able to run off pulling that truck. He will get the message pretty quick.

Do a few sessions like this and then you can graduate to a loaded sled. If you can’t stop the horse from running with a loaded sled, at least go for steering in circles and you will wear him out. You can add the truck for good measure if you are not confident.

Worked for me!

Most ideal are things like the truck where the load can be applied and removed depending on behavior. A sulky plow can work great too if you don’t mind randomly ripping up some ground. Just let it roll along with just enough of a set to keep it off his heels. When he runs, set that sucker deep.

Ouch! I would hate to be the person on the empty sled if there was a bolt and the truck driver did slam on the brakes. I would prefer to use a heavy nylon rope tied to the truck & sled instead of initially hitting the brakes just put it in neutral and let the tension build. If after the initial tensioning and the horse still moves the truck along, then ask them to push on the brake. This may take a lot of whiplash out of the equation.
Seriously, a lot of people do train horses to wheeled rigs by hooking them directly to their tractor. The tractor provides the load but with brakes they can also stop a run-away should it get started. Got a few people around this part of the country that use old (dead) golf carts to let their draft animals pull around if they don’t have a proper wagon or sled. Hey, it has wheels and brakes and most of them even have a top to keep you out of the rain.:D

[Lanny Collins]

Matthew, just be careful. If he has a blinder bridle on and you are leading him he may not be too aware of someone on the drive lines (his attention is on you) or if he is spooked from something (and the reason for his bolts) he could jump on you in a panic. If you have your lead rope hooked into a wide strap type halter and he bolts from panic I suspect you wouldn’t be able to handle/hold him either. If you are going to ground drive again without a load (and not riding on the load) I would go to a round pen. Main thing is every time he gets loose it makes him more bold so you have got to nip this in the bud or he could require a lot of work to bring him back to a trusted fellow. I alway’s use thin rope type halters that will bite into them when they pull. A horse this size has a tremendous amount of strength, even with a bit in his mouth so be careful and hang on to the lines. Having respect for the halter/lead rope is just as important to having control thru the bit.
I had an amish guy work with some horses of mine and he alway’s drove with tight lines. He would make fun of other people that would drive a horse/team with loose lines. His thought was that they panic in a heart beat and by the time you had gathered up loose lines they were 10 to 15 feet down the road. If you are riding this may not be an issue but on foot is a different issue. Just like feeding a horse, any change needs to be made slow and don’t make too many changes at the same time.:)
PS: I drive my team of QH’s with loose lines too. Am more careful if walking though.

[Lanny Collins]

@Matthew 25665 wrote:

Andy thanks for the reply I am going to hook him again friday with a friend who knows draft horses well and get his opinion, he is also bringing a few difrent bits to try. I am on the same page as you with big severe bits I like a soft mouth horse that you can drive with light line pressure. I do remember when the guy I bought him from drove this horse he had a mutch difrent style than I drive with his was more of a ( hya get up thair ) to start the horse. I give a kissing sound (sounds weard but you probably know what I mean) and a quiet (step up) I cant see being quiet in sted of rough would make a horse run off. The problem I am having rapping my mind around this whole thing is the fact that it happens within less than a munite and last time within seconds of driving and with no reason no loud car ,flapping bag, dog running between his legs, it is just like he dosent want to do this and is out of here. Lanny what would you figure is a good amount of weight to put behind him. I have a sled for 4 foot wood that is all oak and steel that I figure weighs 400 pounds empty I can probably add 500 pounds or so with green wood getting it around 900-1000lb It pulls fairly easy but I cant move it by myself. The horse weighs about 1600lbs and is about 17 hands. How far could a horse go with 1000lbs behind him if he did run off? I was always a firm beleiver of not hooking a horse to anything before you could ground drive them with out any problem, but I am open to try difrent things at this point.

Matthew, this horse is young and you are correct that having him ground drive before hooking is a good idea, however you have seen this horse pull in a team and single situation so it is not new to him. My recommendation on the sled was purely that in order to correct this situation you have to walk/run as fast as the horse, when he bolts, and be able to hang onto the lines to stop him. When you loose control of the lines the situation is made worse. If this horse already has a hard mouth it may not be instantly you can switch to a gentle bit, and the reason I recommended going back to the original bit. I think you need to soften his mouth over time. You mentioned the liverpool bit was hooked low, which I interpreted as the most harsh setting. There are about 3 settings (less severe) and over time as the horses mouth softens and gets used to your different driving style (voice commands) you can start to raise the attachment points on the bit (closer to the center ring) and eventually switch over to a snaffle. As far as weight of the sled; with it and youself riding it should be enough, although more weight will wet the collar quicker (wet collar is what this bud really needs) but if you are able to ride, it doesn’t matter how far he goes. How much weight was the log you saw him pull before? Use that as a starting point. If you cannot stop him outright you shoud be at least able to pull on one line and bring him into a big circle and eventually he will get tired. If you are opposed to riding the sled then you could hook a running-w on one or both front legs and have someone else walk along with you and pull the w-rope taking up one foot; if the drive lines are taken out of your hands. The running-w should be demonstrated to him in a round pen (ground drive situation) along with the voice command “whoa”. If he doesn’t stop using a voice command “whoa” then have someone pull the w-rope. Pretty quickly he will associate the verbal command with the w-rope and will whoa before using it. The best way is to give the whoa command. If no reaction pull back on the lines. If still no reaction pull the w-rope as last resort.:)

[Lanny Collins]

I would go back to the person you bought him from and ask to borrow his bridle with the liverpool bits and chin chain. If he had them hooked low it applies more pressure on the mouth/chin. If your snaffle bit has no chin chain, he can elevate his head and think he has no resistance at all. A snaffle bit is fairly gentle. Also, put some weight on a sled and go in an open field. This will help to reduce the distractions (geese, etc.) and also give you a larger space so if he wants to bolt (let him) and the weight should tire him in short order. He will get tired of bolting. Although he is not a nervous horse he probably has a little separation anxiety without his buddy next to him, but it will not do any good to hook him back double (IMO) if your goal is to drive him single.:)

[Lanny Collins]

There is some earlier posts on this subject. If you go to the search option and type in “horses standing” it will bring up a few. There is one post in April 2009 with several threads. The use of hobbles was mentioned and earlier I saw a thread where the forecart was backed up to a tree and the back of the forecart was chained to the tree. This would keep the shafts from getting damaged. Anyway, the search option can really provide a lot of knowledge / thoughts from previous posts.:)

[Lanny Collins]

Bivol,

Good picture/story. In my part of the country we don’t have a lot of snow so all the sled’s I build I put a metal strap on the bottom side of the runners. This is to facilitate moving over dry gound, rocks, asphalt, etc. and prevents excess wear of the wood runners and metal slides along easier. Probably makes a little more noise tho. Those oxen would probably have appreciated a little steel on the runners.:)

[Lanny Collins]

@Lanny Collins 25559 wrote:

Thanks Mark. Found that thread last night. After I received the message from Gordon, I went back and typed “snowball” in the search field and it brought up all the posts. That search option is a nice feature. I’m new to DAP so I will probably make some rookie mis-steps:eek: until i get the hang of how this site works. Thanks again to both you and Gordon for the help.

Also, forgot to mention; My team of QH, full sisters, normally go barefoot all the time because it’s too expensive to keep them shod. When I am using them I use “boots” made by easycare on their front feet. Don’t usually have any trouble on their hind feet. There are several boot manufacturer’s out there. I suppose boots could be used over shod hooves but haven’t tried that yet. Below is the link to them.

http://www.easycareinc.com/

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