[near horse]

When comparing the types of various steeds
You have to consider – “what are my needs?”

If grace, beauty and power are your course
Then most certainly, choose the horse.

But if long ears and a beautiful voice
Are things that really influence your choice

Pick the animal considered “no fool”
That stubborn and ornery wonderful mule.:p

I love my horses but nothing sings like a mule!

[near horse]

Hey Kari,

Welcome –

I’m up in north ID – around Moscow/Lewiston area. Nice to have another representative from the gem state.

[near horse]

Here’s a thought from a rookie – if you’re training a new animal or are having issues with your present one and changing the blinder setup (on or off) might help – go for it. But, if you have a team that already works fine with (or without) blinders, why mess with it? If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Do what works.

[near horse]

Didn’t they used to “roll snow” in the old days to make a good base for sleighs etc rather than plowing it off? The folks at Troika Drafts up in Maine had an old snow roller for sale a few years back – must have been 4 or 5 feet in diameter! It looked like something one could fabricate w/o too much trouble. Or why couldn’t you use something like a 55 gallon drum w/ some weight in it (sand, gravel ….or water) to roll and pack the snow down or even one of those rollers they have for ATV’s to use on lawns? Just some thoughts.

To tell the truth, where we go to do sleigh rides they make trails with their CAT dozer 🙁

[near horse]

Hey Big John,

Really sorry to hear about Dottie’s accident. You know, most of the time we’re trying to convince our teams to be brave and that “there’s nothing to worry about” but an incident like this gives the animal a good “argument” for being nervous or antsy. They (and we) never know which dog is going to do something like this – most don’t – but there’s a reason for horses being a little “concerned” each time there’s something new.

You didn’t say what the people hauling situation was. Christmas tree farm or just wagon rides – both at home? Or was it a wagon ride situation where you were in town? If it was an environment where you could have some say so (like a christmas tree farm, pumpkin patch etc), next time I would make it or ask that it be a “no dogs allowed” place.

I’ve talked to a lot of people that were doing carriage rides etc in town or city who decided it was too risky. People are too unpredictable and they worried about the safety of their teams. I think some of that can be eliminated when you’re on your place or at least get to set the terms.

I hope Dottie recovers, both physically and mentally.

All the best.

[near horse]

Brewer’s grain has a lot of protein left after the brewing process (they just want the starch and sugar) so is usually fed as a protein feed to bump up the protein in a ration. Also, if I remember right, most of the protein is considered “bypass” which means that it is not available to the microbes in the rumen (of cattle, sheep etc) but is digested in the true stomach (abomasum). Not really an issue with horses and friends.

I’m not so sure about feeding recommendations for horses – probably alright in small amounts in your grain mix (if you use one) but the protein requirements of horses (not growing or nursing) aren’t that high – in fact some alfalfa hays have enough protein (14-25%) that it can be hard on their kidneys ….

And, as you already know, change feeds slowly overtime to allow time for adjustment – the last thing you need is colic!!

[near horse]

I do agree that overuse of the moldboard plow can result in a plowpan layer developing. Jason, you don’t use horses with your chisel plow or subsoiler do you? Those buggers really call for some HP. Also, I do recall that another alternative to using the moldboard was using a disc plow – doesn’t completely invert the soil and, theoretically, no plow pan. I’ve looked about for a disc plow but had little luck and I’m not sure how they pull – likely need more HP as well.

Who makes the vibra-shank in horse size? White horse or I & J maybe?

[near horse]

Could also use 2″ pipe instead of sq tubing – can be bent on pipe bender.

[near horse]

I thought that the Pioneer literature said the Kverneland pulled 10-15% easier than the others of equal size. Was that just in sod because I’ve got similar soil to OldKat – sticky when wet – concrete when dry?

Also, most of the riding plows I run into are 2-way plows. I’ve heard they were good for hillside work but many folks just don’t like them at all. Any thoughts about the 2-ways?

[near horse]

George,

For what it’s worth, Greg Caudell has a segment on his horse logging DVD where he uses a snatch block (same as a sheave, I think) to deck some logs he’s skidded to a landing area. Really shows the benefit of using a simple pulley. Good luck.

[near horse]

Carl,

Thanks for posting part of your management plan. That helps.

[near horse]

red spruce overstory that is being out-competed by coming hardwoods, and crop tree release fuelwood harvest in pole-sized hardwood.

Hi Carl,

Excuse my lack of understanding but what is a “crop tree” and “crop tree release”? And how does an overstory get out competed? Do the understory trees take away or tie up nutrients?

Also, do you have a series of pictures from some of your previous work that you can show a client – kind of an album or portfolio? It wouldn’t be too difficult these days to put something together that could demonstrate how your practices look during the process as well as 3,5,10 years later. Just a thought.

[near horse]

Carl,

Perhaps I should have used the word “promote” rather than “sell” but it really is just a matter of semantics.
MY QUOTE

Seems that you’ve got to sell the landowner on a less aggressive/drastic harvesting program

YOUR QUOTE

I don’t think “WE” have to “SELL” anybody anything

You/we need to “promote”, sell, support, preach these practices because, as you said,

It just comes down to how hard we work at “understanding” the issue, and how much “legend” do we accept as gospel.

. Many LO’s don’t know which things are legend or myth and which are practical facts. It can get complicated but when someone who knows nothing (in this case the LO) has to make a decision about managing their land, it seems pretty unreasonable and unfair to blame them for going the “conventional route” if we’re unwilling to educate them on the benefits of horse logging, worst first etc. That said – I don’t know what your neighbor must have been thinking if he had the opportunity to see the mess generated by the harvester he ended up hiring before he hired him. That’s a different issue.

It is very tiring battling all the conventional thinkers about forestry

Jason, Carl and others – don’t always see this as battling but as educating folks on a different way of doing things. A lot of conventional or prevailing thought is prevailing because it is all the average person or LO is exposed to. If they know of other options and choose to still go the conventional route, then that’s their choice. But allowing rape and pillage harvesting of a stand because that’s the only option you were aware of is not really choosing anything. And that’s why some of us ask questions that you all may have answered or explained a thousand times before. We (I) want to understand so we (I) can be informed ….

On a different note – Scott, that’s an interesting thought that having timber tracts subdivided and in the hands of various small owners might acually be of overall benefit to both the ecosystem and horse logging. So all the “hobby farms” aren’t the blight we were hearing about (perhaps it was another myth).

[near horse]

Thanks for the reponses.

It seems that some of you (Carl) blame the landowner for his lack of interest in forestry practices etc while others (Lance) feel that the LO are often duped (not sure by who – logger? – forester?).

The blame can lie with each one but the underlying issue is money – short term gains. Disinterested LO’s are seeing $$$ without thinking (or perhaps caring) about what they’ll have left when the job is done while the guys Lance mentioned saw easy money with a “crash and dash” harvest of veneer lumber and maybe the LO saw bucks coming as well and maybe not.

People in this area are not very critical of pillaging a stand UNTIL it happens where they have to see it each day OR it messed up their favorite snowmobile/4-wheeler/horseback riding area. Then they’re fired up!

Scott – thanks for the particulars in managing species here in the west. Here I see what you’ve called even-aged stand management – mostly clear cut everything – predominantly Doug fir/larch/grand fir/Ponderosa.

Seems that you’ve got to sell the landowner on a less aggressive/drastic harvesting program AND have them be willing to commit to and pay for it. Is that correct? Otherwise, how can you compete or make a living cutting the same timber as the commercial guys and selling it at the same mill? Do I sound confused yet

Seriously, I do appreciate you all chiming in. It makes me think – OUCH.

[near horse]

Hi,

Scott, I followed one of your links (forestconnect) that led me to an online article about “The Game of Logging” in Farming Magazine. Anyway, there was another article in the same magazine called “The Path to Good Forestry Is Riddled With Myths”. I thought I had a better understanding of forest growth etc but this article challenged some of my perceptions.

Would any of you all with forest management experience be willing comment on the article? – It surely could help those trying to better understand the dynamics of managing a timber stand. Thanks.

Here’s the link: http://www.farmingmagazine.com/article.php?id=38

I’ll repost in sustainable forestry.

[Author]

Posts