[near horse]

I like nvittal’s comment about using water for the mass lifted (and falling). How about combining a Pelton wheel with the whole setup. The oxen raise water to an elevation at which it is allowed to fall and turn the wheel that generates electricity (generator is attached to the Pelton wheel) AND, the water can end up being available for some other end use (water garden/yard, water animals, flush tiolets …). I saw a setup minus the animal power where a local market farmer used a pond at elevation to drive a pelton wheel and then continue on further and water his veggies for sale. Perhaps I’m off track by adding on animal power but it’s fun to ponder.

[near horse]

Thanks for the suggestion(s). I might add that one of my teamster buddies mentioned that to swing the team around much of the job is actually executed by the outside horse who has to step up (not meaning forward here) and swing around – he has to cover some ground to get us turned. When I got on him a bit, things worked a little better. Probably needs more reps.

[near horse]

I too use “Red, come gee (or haw) ” and “Ranger, come gee” to get my team to execute I guess what you’d call a side pass turn (no forward motion – just pivots the cart/plow in place – like at the end of the field when plowing w/ a sulky). The problem I have is one horse completely understands what we’re trying to do but his team mate doesn’t seem to get it. When we turn toward the “more aware” horse, he almost drags the other horse through the turn. Going the other way, the tongue (if there is one) pushes him over.

So how do I school the horse that doesn’t seem to get it? I have tried hooking them both to something like a tractor tire and then work them both directions “come gee” and “come haw” – no tongue or furrow to try and stay in. He does ok but still pretty clumsy. The other horse is right on the money.

BTW – plowed some more this past weekend and then helped plant some beardless barley for a cereal grain hay crop. I wasn’t on the 6′
drill but pulled an 8 ‘ roller behind a forecart to press and cover the seed. Heck of a good time.

[near horse]

For about 10 years I worked in beef cattle nutrition research at the University of Idaho and one of the primary projects was to find alternative and available cheaper feed sources (from our area) for cattle. Since we are in an area that produces lots of wheat and barley and removal of the straw often ended up as a “problem” (they usually burned it), we spent a lot of time looking at straw as a source of forage. Alone, barley and wheat straw only have about 3-4% protein – too low to be fed alone. In addition, the fiber (stuff that gets fermented) isn’t very digestible. That said, we looked at treating the straw with anhydrous ammonia (3% of the DM) to increase digestibility. NOTE – This might not sit well with some folks here but I’m just describing what we did – not necessarily advocating or opposing – just stating. By treating with ammonia, you increase the N value of the straw to about 9 -10% and the fiber digestibility is greatly increased. Some of the producers in the area treated 600# round bales and used them as winter feed for their dry cows. The problem they saw was the cows would fill up on the straw (they chose it over a free choice alfalfa round bale) and be full. Unfortunately, there’s still not enough energy available from treated straw alone, so the cows were losing condition. They ended up having tol imit feed the straw so the cows would eat some alfalfa and take in a sufficient amount of energy.

Also, some of the work we did utilized “fistulated cattle” where there is a plug that allows access to the rumen through the animals side. When they were eating plain straw, the rumen was not very full at all and the poop looked like something from a horse – smaller apple turds.

Back in the old days (stationary thresher days) I read that many guys would overwinter their horses on the straw stack left by the thresher. Not sure about their condition come spring.

One last thought – there is a different theory about who needs the higher quality feed – ruminants or equids. Some believe that horses can get by on poorer quality forage because they just extract/digest the readily available nutrients and then pass it out (poop)with little time committed to it. Whereas, a bovine commits a pretty good chunk of time (48 hrs or more) to digesting the same forage. If it is really poor, then their stuck w/ a gut full of stuff that’s of little nutritional value to them – even though they may be able to extract more than the horse. The example used is the series of animals migrating and grazing across the Serengeti (or other range in Africa). Zebras supposedly move through first and consume some of the older grasses which stimulates regrowth and are followed by wildebeest, antelope etc – the ruminants who then get the newer more nutritious stuff. Just a theory but interesting.

[near horse]

Hi,

I typed in a lengthy response and somehow lost it when I tried to expand the thread to see the earliest posts. So, I’ll take that as a sign to be short(er).

The amount of energy in a feed that is released or “lost” as heat is known as the heat increment. Although it is often viewed as a “loss” becuase it doesn’t add to production (growth, lactation, work), it is an important source of heat for maintaining body temp, particularly when it is cold – imagine a 55 gallon hot water bottle inside their body. That said, feeds we identify as “hot”, like grains etc don’t necessarily release the most heat. In fact, I think we call them hot because they are providing the most energy to our animal for activity. Some of the poorer quality roughages (like straw) actually provide the highest heat increments.

As far as why Rod’s one ox is panting, I don’t know but also tend to believe it will subside as he acclimates to both work and environment (temps).
You did mention that he has much of his winter coat still but the other one doesn’t(?). I’m just throwing out ideas here but – animals will be slow to grow hair/shed etc if they are protein deficient (kind of a conservation thing).

Also, heaven forbid, but hopefully he doesn’t have hardware disease (metal like wire in the rumen). In that case, it won’t subside with conditioning or season.

On a lighter and male chauvinist note – Rod, are you sure there’s not some cute little heifer in the next pasture? That would explain a lot.:)

Good luck.

[near horse]

Does plowing with oxen usually require 2 people – a driver and “a plower”? Just curious and I’ve never thought about it until now.

[near horse]

Does plowing with oxen urually require 2 people – a driver and “a plower”? Just curious and I’ve never thought about it until now.

[near horse]

Hi Carl,

I would like to get a set of plans for a logging cart from Les Barden – do you mind PM’ing his contact info to me? Thanks.

Geoff

[near horse]

Hi,

I’m trying to figure out what to do for perimeter fencing on my pastures (nothing there right now) and would like to see a picture or 2 of your hi tensile/fiberglass post setup Donn. Is there something already at your picture site? Otherwise, I’d like to see your corners, the fiberglass posts and a long shot of the fence. I know it sounds like I’m being demanding but I do hate fencing and would like something easier and as effective as the damn woven wire.

Also, OldKat, any more info/pics on the “PUSH POST” system for T-posts?

Thanks again for your help.

[near horse]

It is bad water sitting in pools

Stagnant pools of water w/ decaying vegetation can be sources for botulism. I know it sounds weird but Clostridial bacteria (like botulinum) are anaerobic and survive in oxygen free environments. The rotting veg uses up what O2 is there and provides the right conditions – when the bacteria die they release the botulism toxin.

An interesting epidemiology/pathobiology story from my days in wildlife – seems there was a place raising pheasants for hunting and they had a series of pens/cages that shared common “walls” as well as waterers. One summer (I think) they started to see birds dying off. Some in one cage, then in another and another. Anyway, what had happened was one of the water spigots had a slow drip that provided a somewhat stagnant puddle w/ rotting veg. Birds with access to that puddle got botulism and died. Flies laid eggs on the carcasses (I know – bad management) which hatched into crawly maggots which other birds – even in pens w/ no access to the puddle – promptly gobbled up. And they died. The belief is that the botulism toxin has no effect on the flies or maggots but remains unchanged and was then ingested by the next unsuspecting bird/victim.

Pretty cool. Or maybe just an old wildlife tale.

[near horse]

Thanks Donn – I went and looked at more of your pics and saw a clearer view of the forecart (in “equipment” I think). When you say homemade/Amish made – does that mean you modified an Amish made cart or bought a cart homemade from an Amish? I would be very interested in how it’s designed – I’m thinking about using some of the parts from my old Versatile swather (hydraulics etc) just need a power source smaller thatn a 200 ci Ford engine.

As far as my question goes, the jockey stick was not the point so let me try again:

After looking at the haying pics of Donn’s I want to know why have check lines AND still have regular lines on the inside animals at all – I assume there’s some semblence of control by tying them back to the britchen ring (as Ronnie mentioned) but is it necessary?

[near horse]

While I’ve already demonstrated my lack of knowledge on this thread once already, I still need to ask more dumb-ish questions. After looking at the haying pics of Donn’s I want to know why have check lines/jockey sticks AND still have regular lines on the inside animals at all – I assume there’s some semblence of control by tying them back to the britchen ring (as Ronnie mentioned) but is it necessary? Just inquiring.

Also, Donn, what were you using as a forecart running that baler? I couldn’t tell if the baler was a PTO drive run from the cart (brand and motor size?) or an engine driven baler. Are you happy with the power output of the cart to handle the baler (and I assume the haybine too)?

Thanks.

[near horse]

Not a proverb but the last one from “biovol” about bears reminded me of an old Gary Larsen Far Side comic where a polar bear is talking to his buddy after biting into an igloo w/ eskimos inside and says” I love these things. Crunchy on the outside and chewy on the inside.”

[near horse]

Hey John,

Why would a well digger’s ass be really cold? I’ve heard that one but don’t get it.

Some for stuff that’s really old –
“hasn’t happened since Moses was a senior” or “since Jesus was a freshman”.

[near horse]

An old vet used to say “Six strong men and 40 feet of rope”. That’s all you needed to castrate or geld bulls or horses.:eek:

[Author]

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