[near horse]

Heck, they’re getting paid and won’t do it. The most reliable crew was a guy about 70 yrs old w/ more horses than hay so he hauled hay for shares and his helper was his 10 yr old 90# grandson. As you know, it’s hot dirty physical work. No takers. Food, fun, beer, money. Maybe with the crappy economy. Hell, Bernard Madeoff and his ilk should be required to come do some real work to see what EARNED INCOME is all about.:D

[near horse]

Jason Rutledge has a nice set of plans available for free at his website. Healing Harvest (http://www.healingharvestforestfoundation.org).

Also, Gregg Caudell had somewhat of a design for a walking beam style (2 axles – logging arch but same thing). Looked good but plans not so clear. Definitely look at Jason’s plans – very nicely done.

Good luck. I’m in the same boat.:)

[near horse]

I haven’t felt this bad since I dropped my keys in the outhouse hole and turned around to look at where they’d gone and promptly got stung on my bum by a yellowjacket:eek:

Seriously, what choices do we as individuals have? It’s unclear as to what will happen next so rather than having an ulcer over the whole thing (and I have one every time I listen to the financial news) we have to just keep moving forward and adjust on the go.

I have a hard time taking any information from brokers, analysts and advisors as having any credibility. They just haven’t gotten too many things right lately.

I don’t know about Barton Biggs, but Morgan Stanley was one firm that was integrally involved in speculating on oil that caused fuel prices to skyrocket over the summer. They took a lesson from Enron manipulating the power market in CA a few years back. They have a new movie coming out about their business model. It’s called “Scum-dog Millionaires:mad:”.

[near horse]

I forgot to add this to my last post. Have you thought about using your horses with a pull behind combine (old Allis Chalmers, Massey Ferguson, and International) rather than a thresher and binder setup. I’ve not used them (binder/thresher) but they appear to require a lot of man power (not just horses). That can be a limitation. Here, folks can’t even find help to haul in hay. They’d rather work at McDonalds. Sad.:(

[near horse]

Hi Y 4,

Can you clarify your question for me? Do you want to know if you can continue farming the ground you have but use horses rather than tractor/combine … and maintain the same level of income? 180 acres sounds like a lot if it is all under tillage in the same year.

Before selling off the other equipment it seems logical to try and “phase into” the whole thing. Strictly use horses on a fixed amount of ground say 50 acres and see how that goes. It could give you a better idea of how do-able the whole 180 would be. One thing I would also look at is how much debt I’m carrying in the conventional equipment. It certainly is comforting to have something on hand if you need to get harvest in quickly ….. That said, it is hard to justify having a $40,000 combine to cut the acreage you have in grain (proverbial $100 saddle on a $50 horse).

BUT you have the hardest part of the small farming thing on your side – you have found a market. Also, think about using your horses as part of the marketing of your grains, beef etc. Kudos to you – glad to hear someone is making a go of it.

[near horse]

How’s it going down in Whitebird? After this last 3-4 weeks of winter, land prices could be coming down a bit:D Unfortunately, land still is pretty rich for my blood here. Lapwai area is probably better ground than up here around Deary. Lots of clay with pretty shallow topsoil. Good for growing Douglas Fir not so good for tomatoes.

I’ve never been to farmers market in Lewiston but have been at Moscow. In fact, Moscow now has a winter version that gathers once a month at the 1912 building (that’s what it’s called). Not too much veggie-wise but other stuff (and people). In fact, I think tomorrow (Sat. 1/10) is the Jan market. I know that’s a ways from Grangeville but the weather should be good for a little trip.

How far from the summit of Whitebird grade are you? Also, if the weather is crappy and icy, look at taking the old grade (with all the switchbacks). It gets sun exposure that the new grade doesn’t – hence less icy but more winding.

Take care and all the best.

[near horse]

Thanks for the additional pics, Donn. They helped a lot. I do have a question about where you hitched the chain to your plow. Why wasn’t it equidistant on each side of the point (apex) of the plow? How much do you think that thing weighs?

All the best.

[near horse]

I’ve not tried this but it seemed to make sense. Place your water tank in those places that have severe weed infestations. The hoof traffic will beat them to death. The person that suggested this had a mobile watering/mineral trailer with a water tank on the back and trough on the tailend. Mineral feeders along the side. Mobile (pulled w/ tractor but could be moved with horses) so could use in rotational grazing.

Some thoughts on pastures (comments I’ve heard from various places):
1) never cut and sell hay off your property unless you are ready to buy inputs (fertilizer). You are removing nutrients in the form of the plant. Returning manure to your fields can help balance things out. In fact, it’s not a bad idea to bring in some inexpensive hay (not weedy) and let your animals eat, poop, stomp it into yout field.

2) from Jim Gerrish – “the medium quality grass that I do have is more valuable than the high quality grass that I don’t have”. I probably butchered this but his point is look at what grows well in your area instead of fighting to establish and maintain stands of forage that look good in the catalog but don’t grow well in your area. He points out that “Missouri is not New Zealand” so why am I trying to grow grasses from New Zealand?

3) various grass and legume species have varying characteristics regarding both stand life and ease of establishment. It seems that the long lived stuff isn’t that easy to establish. Example – my neighbor planted trefoil as part of a mixture and thought it had failed (he had only seen sporadic plants over the first 2-4 years.) Then, miraculously, his fields started bursting forth with yellow birdsfoot trefoil.

4) legumes fix nitrogen and grasses will gladly take advantage of that N. So over time, the percentage of legumes in your mixture will decrease as the grass population increases

5) for pasture renovations plant fence posts (ie graze) before you invest in and plant seed.

6) restrict grazing to small patches and move often. Otherwise, you will have animals continue to eat the same plants over and over until they are worn out and die (as someone mentioned earlier).

It’s nice to think of grazing and grass as I look out at 4′ snow in the field with rain coming down:)

[near horse]

Hi Cheryl,

Have you thought about strapping the disc to a makeshift sled (plywood with a couple of 2×4 skids attached) and sliding the whole thing into the trailer? I know we’ve dragged plows around on sheets of plywood. Lots cheaper and less headache than a set of wheels. Just an idea.

BTW-What did you end up doing for a mower?

All the best.

[near horse]

Some good points Bio Woodsman.

I continue to struggle with “the best way” to lay out our farmstead. As you state, you have to work within the constraints of the geography. One challlenge is having faclilities within a reasonable distance of the house – think feeding time or need tool in house ….. BUT you still need enough room to get equipment turned around and into the shop, hay to the barn ….

AND —- enough room to push the snow out of the way. It has become apparent to me that thinking about chores and daily living in the worst possible weather conditions (and then add 10% to your estimate:)) helps give you a better layout. Obviously snow seems to be a relevant topic for me right now:eek:

Things can get much more complicated if you try things like harvesting rainwater from your roof runoff….. (things get dry here in the summer and wells are deep and hit and miss).

With regard to overall efficiency, there are some good ideas from the “permaculture folks” that say to place “areas of usage” based on frequency of use – imagine a dart board or target. High usage places would be near the center while areas like hayfields would be more towards the perimeter. Good basic concept.

[near horse]

I have some questions for the more experienced horse people out there.

1) Does it work to hitch a herd bound horse to an older very broke horse (and in this case – bigger as well. Think big Belgian or something w/ more size and mass than the Haflinger) and use it as sort of an anchor? In other words, besides being another horse buddy that won’t take off, the bigger horse creates a larger load to get moving back towards home. OR even tack on a plow or something that you can “drop anchor” on to help get the horses mind right:)

2) What are your thoughts on taking the “herd” elsewhere for awhile? If it’s only one or two horses, can you leave them with someone for a week or month so there’s nobody for the Haflinger to want to return to?

I’m a rookie when it comes to horse training but I’d like to hear more from the experienced crowd.

Thanks.

[near horse]

Hi Donn,

Do you have more info on your snowplow? I looked at the pics but would like a bit more. Also, how weel does it work when you’re making your first pass in new snow? – particularly I’m referring to the the forecart. We’ve just been getting our tails kicked here in the NW with snow every day or so for the last 14-21 days. Nowhere left to put it. Spokane WA (lower elevation thatn us) got 61 inches in Dec (actually about 3 weeks). 🙂

Thanks.

[near horse]

I just plowed some snow today (and last week) with a simple A-frame style plow made from a couple of 2x12s w/ crossbracing near the front. One leg is hinged and the brace back there is a removable 2×4 that can be used to widen or narrow the width plowed by using a longer or shorter 2×4. I just use bungee cords to pull the wings tight against the 2×4 brace. This design came from Small FArmers Journal Fall 92 p 65.

That said – A-frames can be hazardous/dangerous in that they tend to swing back and forth based on increased drag on one wing or the other. You can easily get tripped up by those legs -especially if you’re plowing over packed snow and ice. They also (at least in my case) struggle with deep snow. Today I was trying to open up my neighbors driveway that had 3 feet of snow settled onto it. The horses (2 good-sized Belgians) pulled like champs but the plow wasn’t biting in real well so I was trying to keep up hustling through the 2′ that was left after plowing and dodging the plow. Needless to say I did a lot of “get up” one, two three, “whoa”. I tried using my weight to get the plow to take a bigger bite but no luck.

This plow did great last week when I was moving 10″ of nice dry powder. Deep, heavy settled snow is tough stuff. Might do better with: 1) a stable seat or something on the plow 2) a way of adding ballast to the rear of the plow 3) increasing the height of the sidewalls (maybe another pair of 2x12s using a stake pocket kind of system:confused:

Anyway, thought I’d chime in since I had a good experience last time out and a “not-so-good” one today but in totally different conditions.

[near horse]

I don’t worry about a cold horse, nor a wet horse, but a cold wet horse is another thing. My horses are out 24-7-365, with the exception of freezing rain.

I only blanket them if they are still sweaty after work, with a wool blanket to wick away moisture.

This is the stuff that confuses me. I’ve always kept my horses outside but with a 3-sided shelter available if they decide to use it. Last week it was -5 w/ snow all around and I look out around 11 PM :confused:and see one the horses laying down in the snow (resting) so I’m ok with them being able to tolerate cold. It’s the wet part I have trouble with. If I work them (and I’m really trying to keep them active during the winter) then they will be sweaty and therefore somewhat wet. So I should blanket them then before turning them out in their paddock (w/ shelter)? Wind seems to be the thing that makes horses uncomfortable – they quickly look for something to break it.

Bottom line – I just want to make sure that if I work my horses in cold weather that I’m doing what’s best for them when we’re through.

[near horse]

Thank you all for your welcome.

J-L You are right about there being a lot of folks in ID/Eastern WA using draft horses/mules. Unfortunately, it seems that there aren’t the “organizations” or groups that you see back east/mid west. Could be everyone’s so far apart distance-wise or …… There are a couple of plowing bees in spring but they seem to happen when I’m trying to get fertilizer down, equipment fixed ….. Just need to make time.

Bob H – Yep, these are my first drafts, although I have owned a riding horse or two in the past. These guys can definitely be hard on facilities – more like elephants. We are in prime timber country w/ comercial logging being the primary employment. In fact, I can hear them working the nearby canyon (line machine) if I go outside. Timber is doug fir, grand fir, cedar, and P. pine (Ponderosa – not pinyon). Usually end up with lodgepole stands left.

I also put up hay – grass mix off of old CRP ground that needs work. Want to get the horses working on that one as well.

Anyway, thanks for your responses and maybe I’ll run into you at the equipment auction in Sisters, OR:)

Geoff

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